Contrary to popular belief

[Ray]

Originally Posted by Alooga Right... Homophobia is dying.... I'll have to put that on my "things to know" list. Have you ever actually been to America, the base where a good potion of this game's players originate from. Even excluding South America, it's eccentrically homophobic.

Of course equality isn't going to be as prevalent in still developing countries, but here is a cp from wikipedia about the worldwide civil status of same sex marriage.

The Netherlands in 2001 was the first country to legalize same-sex marriages, with the first marriages performed in the Amsterdam city hall on 1 April 2001. Since then, same-sex marriages have been performed legally by Belgium (2003), Spain (2005), Canada (2003 - in some provinces; 2005 - nationally), South Africa (2006), Norway (2009), Sweden (2009), Portugal (2010), Iceland (2010), Argentina (2010), and Denmark (2012). In the United States, same-sex marriages are performed in its federal district, the District of Columbia (2010), and in six states: Massachusetts (2004), Connecticut (200, Iowa (for 4 hours in 2007 and from 2009), Vermont (2009), New Hampshire (2010), and New York (2011). A 1996 law prevents the U.S. federal government from recognizing same-sex marriages, but this law is under challenge in the courts and was recently ruled unconstitutional by a federal district court in Massachusetts.[1][2] This ruling is currently under a stay, but if the stay is lifted, same-sex marriages in Massachusetts would be afforded both state and federal recognition. If the case is affirmed on appeal, it could be applied regionally in the U.S. or, if affirmed by the U.S. Supreme Court, nationwide. In Mexico, same-sex marriages are only performed in Mexico City (2010)[3] and Quintana Roo (2012), but same-sex marriages are legally recognized throughout the country.

Hell, I saw a bumper sticker still proudly saying "Yes on prop 8" (The California ruling that same-sex marriage shall be prohibited.) I would now like you to list the states of the US that allow same-sex marriage, and tell me homophobia is dying.

I know all about prop 8, I was in a Catholic middle school when it was being voted on. In the cp from wikipedia above lists the countries in Europe that have legalized same sex marriage and the 7 or 8 US states that have legalized gay marriage. Why do you think it's like that?

European nations are widely secularized in law. The states in the US are hugely influenced by the religions (Christianity) of its citizens. Remember, about 40 percent of US citizens deny evolution.

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Speaking of which, why do you have so much faith in love from the human race? We've proven time and time again that we're all fiends and horrid, wretched, creatures, why do you think people DON'T mean what they say? You're coming from the bias of you not meaning what you say. It 's quite odd to think all people think like you A7.

A better question would be "Why are you so nihilistic about the future of society?"

There are many many bad people in the world. Likewise, there are many good people. That doesn't really change the fact that we can't bring to attention actual issues like homophobia instead of their implications such as the word faggot being used as an insult as sensible people.

Why are you being so dismissive of my arguments?
i'm giving you reasons attacking the word faggot is wasteful, like because it is not as connected to its literal meaning when people use it as an insult or because there are bigger things that promote homophobia that you should be attacking instead, and you're just telling me that people are bad and that they all actually do hate gay people because they call people faggots.


I say that when people use the word faggot to insult other people they are not really promoting homophobia because that is how everyone I know in real life are. I don't know any people that use the word faggot that actually hates gay people because others have used the word faggot to insult others. It seems that your source of people that you talk to about the use of the word faggot is the internet "community." I told you why this source is extremely unreliable when I talked about anonymity and how it changes how people on the internet behave. Homophobia is promoted by religion (though the big establishments such as some protestant churches and the cathlic church are starting to change their positions), a feeling of otherness toward gays, ignorance, hate, and a misunderstanding of what a modern romantic relationship is; the use of the word faggot is the least of your worries if you want to get solving the problem of homophobia.

This is all I am saying. I am in no support of homophobia. I am not supporting the perpetuation of stereotyping pejoratives used as insults. I am only trying to say that we should not waste our time attacking these pejoratives, but first we should attack the actual problem that fuels the use of them.

Finally, it's Ray. Not A7.

[Alooga]

Why? ... I don't know. I honestly do not know why I hate this word so much. That doesn't mean I'm not going to stand by my beliefs.

[Ray]

What you know forms your beliefs, instead of what you're implying. I told you what I know about this subject and I stand my beliefs. You don't know why you believe your core value and then you're trying to stand by that belief. Our goals aren't very different, Alooga. We are both are against homophobia, but good luck with adhering to that baseless belief that all men are wretched creatures. Also, if all men are wretched creatures, why is it that you think stopping the use of the word faggot will help?

If you widen that world view to not only the subject of the meaning of faggot to actual problems, you begin to see that there is no chance of hope in that world view. I don't see what's the point in trying to fix anything coming from that point of view. I just don't hold it.

[shook]

Originally Posted by Alooga That doesn't mean I'm not going to stand by my beliefs.

See, while i very definitely do NOT condone homophobia or the continuous poop fight that is the typical online game interaction, you highlighted one very critical issue about the actually homophobic people. They're likely to be every bit as stout in their belief as you are (which, given that homophobia is bad, sucks), so while your taking steps against it is admirable, it's a very uphill battle. Good luck with it though, i'm genuinely looking forward to a human society where people won't be chastised for standing out. Hell, obliterate the term "different", we're all humans, aren't we? (sadly some people have taken this the wrong way, but you know)

Also, side note. Clinging feverishly to a certain belief is risky, very risky. You think humanity is a festering pile of shit. Fair enough, there are certainly some people that would be right at home in such a pile, but don't go dismissing everyone like that. Ray, for example, seems to be very much on your side, despite providing some (if you ask me, very reasonable) arguments against your current MO. Now, correct me if i'm wrong, but i think he's doing that to help you direct your attention at the actual issue, instead of attacking a word that actually only implies homophobia a fraction of the time.

As he said, the word "faggot" barely even means "gay" any more, most frequently taking on the same meaning as "fucking asswipe" and similar generic insults. It's unfortunate, and i can understand why you'd be hating the term, since i have a similar hatred for the word "gangsta" and everything modern it implies. I know it doesn't have the same connotations, and for some could even be seen as positive, but i am NOT among them.

But you have to remember, the waning of homophobia (it's there, notice how homosexual characters portrayed in the same light as everyone else appear in many newer AAA games) is a pretty recent thing. Almost all major religions consider it a crime against nature, and previously had it punished by straight up killing the offender. That mentality has been DEEPLY imprinted in most populaces, and getting it back out will take a while, sadly. I'm all for tolerance, but the same can't be said for everyone.

tl;dr homophobia does suck but is on the retreat yet don't expect a radical shift in the general online mindset with any kind of speed

[AlphasoniK]

I haven't read all off the posts but what I meant to say is:

The people that are offended by the word faggot and all words alike are the ones that have the most problems with said word, in this case, homosexuals.

If you think about it, words only carry value when they are meant.
By this I mean that you and of course a lot of others are offended because you're not comfortable hearing the word.
The reason why you're uncomfortable with the word is because you don't know what to think of homosexuals.
This might not be the case for you though.

Simple advise:
Stop worrying, the word "faggot" got accepted by the community and is even used as a friendly name (oldfag, newfag).
Here in Holland we scold with "Cancer", which is accounted for as a thing you only say in grim situations.
It's also because it sounds good. I mean it's not like we're promoting the disease or wishing someone gets it.
It's also not because we hate everyone with cancer.
It's simply because the word sounds good (kanker) and got accepted as a abusive word.

However, I do agree that we shouldn't use words like this in front of people who are truly offended by them.
Good luck trying to convince the rest of the community.

P.S. I'm from the Netherlands so I never really experienced homophobia. It's widely accepted here.
I do experienced a lot of it on the web and on TV though.

[JayStar]

Simple fix... don't be offended by what people say on the internet.

[xtermix]

i'll say this, DON'T take shit over the internet, it stupid and immature, and noone can change that