Originally Posted by Numbers

I play Lee Sin when I try hard to win in ranked. 17-5 record with him I think. Nocturne is really good too.

Originally Posted by Oracle

We've gone over this before, and I'm going to explain again why you're wrong.

You made a fallacious argument there. You're assuming that if you aren't present everywhere, your team will feed the enemy. Let's use basic logic here. It's a 4v5 because your top is farming their lane. Will you engage, or back off? Logical teams will back the fuck off. Retard teams will engage. If they engage, then you probably weren't going to win to begin with. Plus, looking at his team, it seems they were perfectly fine without him. Everybody on his team was positive, except for the support. Let's now crush this argument numerically.

Let's assume you don't roam, and instead you farm your lane. Minion waves come every 30 seconds. Each wave has 6 minions, with every 3rd wave having a cannon minion. Assuming you can last hit somewhat decently, you get 5 out of the 6 minions in each wave, and the cannon minion when it spawns. It falls down to 3 out of 6 and the cannon minion if you get pushed to your turret, and 3 out of the 6 plus the cannon minion if you have a large wave behind you. So, in basic laning conditions, you will be getting 5 minions killed every 30 seconds approximately. Minions give 20 something gold when killed, so that's 100 extra gold every 30 seconds, plus an additional 30 gold per cannon minion, which is every 120 seconds. Therefore, in basic laning conditions, you would earn 430 gold in 2 minutes. Now let's assume that every 4 minutes, you either have a large wave, or you're push to your own turret. This should last one wave on average, two waves occasionally. So this stunts your gold down to 60 gold per 30 seconds, 120 per minute assuming two waves. This means you'll earn only 330 gold in the worst case scenario every two minutes.

A champion kill is worth 400 gold as first blood, 200 for first kill, and is reduced at every subsequent kill. Bonus for any kill streaks ended. Let's assume you're top. The only logical lane to gank is mid, your own lane, or catching the jungler. If you're killing your own lane, that's a bonus 200 gold (assuming jungler has earned first blood somewhere) with little to no time lost. You might need to back to avoid a jungler clean up, but you should be able to get a few minions in before you need to b. Let's assume you clear the wave normally, at 5 minions out of the 6, plus any cannon minions. That's another 130 gold with a cannon minion. That brings your total gold earned for that kill to 330 gold over 30 seconds. Not bad. However, now you need to back, then head back to lane. Assuming you don't have tele, that's another 30 seconds wasted. So really, you've only earned 165 gold over 30 seconds. Still not bad.

But that's assuming it was your own lane. Now let's assume you roam to gank mid. That's another 30 seconds in transit. There's probably also another 10-30 seconds waiting for a good opportunity to gank, as mid will normally not push out hard unless they themselves want to roam. Let's assume the gank was successful after 40 seconds, and you secure a kill. That's 200 gold for 40 seconds of work. Now you either need to head back to lane, or head back to base. Both add another 30 seconds to the clock. So now you've only earned 200 gold for 70 seconds of work, well below the average you'd earn from farming your lane.

But wait, now the enemy can't farm right? Sure, that's true. Let's assume they farm as well as you. Death counter at early levels is around 30 seconds. Another 30 seconds to get back to lane. You've denied them a minute of farm, which is around 200 gold. But they also have 30 extra seconds of farming over you, so they have another 100 extra gold over you from minions. So really, you've only denied them 100 gold. And you've denied yourself around 20 gold. So really, you only give yourself a leg up of 80 gold.

And that's assuming perfect results. Let's assume the gank goes wrong 10% of the time. Good odds. But if you DO fuck up, you're now down 200 gold, while the enemy is only down 100 gold (assuming they b after the gank). And that's assuming it wasn't a turn around, where they get the kill and you get killed.

AND let's assume that you don't always get the kill. Assists only give 50 something gold. And with two people trying to get the kill, that should be around a 50/50 chance to get the kill. So out of the 90% successful ganks, you only get 50 gold in half of them. That would make your gank put you in the red in comparison to the the person you ganked.

AND that's assuming the gold earned from champion kills is not getting reduced.

AND that's assuming no jungler interference.

AND that's assuming no wards are up to waste your time.

AND that's assuming you're already winning your lane, so you can afford to roam.

Originally Posted by SpmSL

@Uric
Yeah man, I fucking hate ww jungle. Slow clear speed, bad ganks pre-six. Also has some mana problems, so most ww's don't give away blues