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Old Mar 20, 2017   #101
Veoo
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Originally Posted by SmallBowl View Post
Evidence =/= Proof



ev·i·dence
ˈevədəns/Submit
noun
1.
the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.
"the study finds little evidence of overt discrimination"
synonyms: proof, confirmation, verification, substantiation, corroboration, affirmation, attestation
"they found evidence of his plotting"


from your favorite dictionary, the oxford dictionary.
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Old Mar 20, 2017   #102
ФSmallBowl
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Originally Posted by Veoo View Post
evidence
evdns/Submit
noun
1.
the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.
"the study finds little evidence of overt discrimination"
synonyms: proof, confirmation, verification, substantiation, corroboration, affirmation, attestation
"they found evidence of his plotting"


from your favorite dictionary, the oxford dictionary.

The sentence on oed that has those synonyms is "They found evidence of his participation in the burglary". In this sentence the burglary is the phenomenon and his participation is the hypothesis. More evidence was found to support the hypothesis, rather than a hypothesis being drawn from evidence. Also note that this a definition related to a law & order / court case scenario.

Sentence 3 on oed is equivalent to what we are talking about here, not sentence one. "The room showed evidence of a struggle"; due to the evidence in the room the hypothesis was drawn that a struggle occurred. Synonyms here: signs, indications, pointers, marks, traces, suggestions, hints.


I think youll agree that this is the meaning of evidence I was using.

I think youll also agree that this is not advancing the discussion topic, if you wish to continue this discussion feel free to P.M. me and we can continue talking about what constitutes evidence scientifically.






https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/thesaurus/evidence



_________

Edit: Or on the dictionary 1.2 matches better in this context than 1.1.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/evidence



In fact you will find that 1.0 matches exactly with the law definition 1.1. But does not match with the more general definition being used by me of 1.2
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Last edited by SmallBowl; Mar 20, 2017 at 05:05 PM..
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Old Mar 20, 2017   #103
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Lol

I believe our senses we use to observe existence are extreemly limited. Logically, thanks to society advancing, etc, it is more widely accepted to believe in science and facts to create theories than a made up explanation for stuff we don't know anything about.

Yeah though, there could quite possibly be something else we can't see, feel or hear. Demension theories etc are intriguing and make more sense than things like (explaining religion) jaden smiths cult quotes like "what is 6 days to god?". Lol

TLDR: we don't know enough yet to jump to conclusions, but we know enough to realize that fact


Last edited by Link; Mar 20, 2017 at 06:12 PM..
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Old Mar 25, 2017   #104
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I was going to type a philosophical bomb.

But I'll leave it at this, we exist. Our existence propagates questions, which by their inherent inception only we can answer. Now, how out of place is it for this apex predator (With higher reasoning of remorse and sadness etc) to grow past these base logical arguments. How does this being justify itself? Religion, divine purpose/conquest. Even in daily life people justify things, on a minor scale. There is no purpose to life more than we make/excuse ourselves for.



However to placate the religious on my views, absence of proof does not mean proof of absence.
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Last edited by AussieCunt; Mar 25, 2017 at 08:59 AM.. Reason: in case jesus folk
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Old Mar 29, 2017   #105
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One of my favourite exchanges from a film (Solaris, 1972),

- When man is happy, the meaning of life and other eternal themes rarely interest him. These questions should be asked at the end of one's life.
-- But we don't know when life will end. That's why we're in such a hurry.


I spent my whole teenage life asking the same question and it just made me depressed. Funnily enough, I recently chose to get baptized at a Mormon church. When I did so, I wasn't certain - and I'm still not certain if there is a God - but I did it anyway. Why? Because pretending I know or, at least, hoping there is something after death gives me the drive to seek out more in life. I'm still not necessarily happy, so to speak, but I have some comfort and people I can talk to at church.

I'm not saying religion is the answer, rather, the answer is what you make it.
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Old Mar 29, 2017   #106
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100% agree with your conclusion, the answer is what you make of it.

I would like to focus on this line though:
Originally Posted by Mallymkun
Why? Because pretending I know or, at least, hoping there is something after death gives the me the drive to seek out more in life

Can you explain this process?

To me, it would seems that knowing that your time on earth is finite would lead one not to attempt to (with all due respect) delude themselves into thinking that life continues after death. Rather, confronted with this knowledge that they will die someday (save some insane technological leap), that would inspire one to seek the most out the one, finite life they have.

Again, not attacking religion, just wondering why you decided to choose religion as your answer. I know a few other people (some have cast their faith aside now) who are good thinkers but who also battle to convince themselves of the validity of their faith. It just seems immature to me that they wrap themselves in their self-delusions like some sort of comfort blanket. I said earlier in this thread, but once people like this cast aside their blanket that's when they become truly empowered.

Apologies if any of this offended you - Wasn't my intent.
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Last edited by Ele; Mar 29, 2017 at 04:34 PM..
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Old Mar 29, 2017   #107
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Originally Posted by Ele View Post
To me, it would seems that knowing that your time on earth is finite would lead one not to attempt to (with all due respect) delude themselves into thinking that life continues after death. Rather, confronted with this knowledge that they will die someday (save some insane technological leap), that would inspire one to seek the most out the one, finite life they have.

Again, not attacking religion, just wondering why you decided to choose religion as your answer. I know a few other people (some have cast their faith aside now) who are good thinkers but who also battle to convince themselves of the validity of their faith. It just seems immature to me that they wrap themselves in their self-delusions like some sort of comfort blanket. I said earlier in this thread, but once people like this cast aside their blanket that's when they become truly empowered.

Apologies if any of this offended you - Wasn't my intent.

First off, you haven't offended me. I can see how it would be seen as delusion; I used to see it (religious belief) as the same thing. Maybe it's a latent, or soft delusion. Anyhow, I attribute positive/neutral connotations to the word in this case.

To answer your first point, for me, the belief that I only live once, that death is the end and the end for all my friends & relatives, put me in a hopeless and lazy disposition. I would think that if there was no God, then there is no justice, no meaning and no destination in my life. I would come to abhor the alternative view that we live in a meaningless chaos, where nothing matters and the dead are dead (in the sense of eternal darkness).

Atheism, or just Apatheism, seems to work wonders for other people, so I don't bash it. To me, you can either go too far with both concepts (there is no god vs. there is a god). There is a designed place in my head that I hope to go to when I die, so living as best and as moral as I can in this life is like the build up to that. I sort of scratched out suicide a few years back, since I couldn't bear the thought of my parents suffering because of my decision.
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Old Mar 29, 2017   #108
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Yeah, for sure, religion can definitely be a light for some people in dark places - By giving purpose to those who lack it, by providing structure to the world and by assigning a guidebook for living (attitudes, beliefs, norms, practices).

I see that as somewhat a deflection of responsibility - We are the custodians of life's meaning and yet we're just handing the custodianship over to God because it's easier?

I've not always been happy, but I've figured out that I'm ultimately responsible for making myself happy. I don't think I could allow me to lie to myself about God - If I spent anytime at all seriously analysing my thoughts I'd see that I was being dishonest with myself.
---
On a point related to what I just said about analysing thoughts, mindfulness or meditation is an extremely empowering practice - I usually recommend people use that as their 'guidebook' for life, if they must have one. It allows us to understand that we decide how we want to feel. We can choose how they react to situations, not just be swept up in the energy of powerful thoughts (negative or positive). It allows us to pick the positive paths forwards, and immediately shut our minds off from even tempting to think about pursuing the negative paths (since we learn that thoughts are constantly passing by, and we can let the negative thoughts go and not be tempted by them).

For example, before I started practicing mindfulness, when I began to think about a stressing thought I would usually follow it down the rabbit hole and get way more stressed, and being in that negative mindset cause me to make all sorts of wrong decisions. Now, if I notice an stressing thought, I notice it for what it is, just another thought, and I don't pay it any heed. I never indulge any thoughts that spiral me into a bad headspace anymore. Now, I'm too aware of the nature of thoughts and too mindful of my thoughts arising to let that sort of thing happen.

I suppose that my point is that mindfulness and meditation, though somewhat of a spiritual practice, can be separated from religion (no supernatural required), and provides (I would argue anyway) far greater benefits for self-growth and improvement than religion does. I know you're a Mormon now, but you should consider doing some research on this (if you, or anyone else, want a place to start, PM me and I'll offer some guidance and link some resources).
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Last edited by Ele; Mar 29, 2017 at 05:55 PM..
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Old Mar 29, 2017   #109
rainboweye
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Originally Posted by Ele View Post
To me, it would seems that knowing that your time on earth is finite would lead one not to attempt to (with all due respect) delude themselves into thinking that life continues after death. Rather, confronted with this knowledge that they will die someday (save some insane technological leap), that would inspire one to seek the most out the one, finite life they have.

I have only thought of life after death a little bit in my life but like I always feel inside that we are way too much more than just things that live only 50-70 years and go away. With all the things we can do and all the places our minds can go and just the life we have like that to me is so much more than a coincidence in a place somewhere and then after 70 years its gone. I don't know i havent thought a lot about it though but it's just how I feel about it.

like just life itself like close your eyes and feel yourself alive like what are you? you're alive... what is that? I don't feel like life is just a coincidence happened and after some years its gone it feels to me much more than that I feel like a life never ends it starts but never ends. I don't know though it's just how I feel.
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Old Apr 9, 2017   #110
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Just two cool articles to spark some more discussion (IK shouldn't be using wikipedia but fuck it):

Philosophical Zombies


Quantum Suicide and Immortality
(Also: look up quantum resurrection)

Other cool things that are fun to read but unrelated to this discussion:

Simpson's Paradox (Statistics Paradox)


Maxwell's Demon (Science Shit)


Questions to discuss: What is the difference between perception and reality? Can we be sure that anyone is conscious other than ourselves? Can we be sure that we are conscious? What defines consciousness? Where is the line between life and robotic stimulus-reaction?
Veoo please stop talking you're a disappointment -Mr.Softy aka Admiral Dweeb
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