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Old Nov 26, 2017   #101
racci
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Honestly, after coming back to this game like once a year for the past couple years it feels like a shell of it's former self. I'd honestly love to say I can still go into a random server and fuck around and have fun but I can't. It's depressing. I want the old community back.
suicide is always an option.
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Old Nov 26, 2017   #102
Lucy
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I had a really big connection to toribash, but the recent death(paywall) of wibbles just kinda pushed me far enough from the game.
Plus the way staff act more superior than the common player really gets tiring, yet they deny this being a problem.

I guess what I'm trying to say is basically what RadexHEJOO is saying, mods are too focused on catering to people that cry for the smallest things, what happened to "Grow a thicker skin"? I can remember when this was thrown around a lot when someone complained,
I really love this game but it's not being focused on in the right way.

In conclusion, this game isn't exactly dead yet, it can still be revived with promotions and even reaching out to youtubers, (that steam release really gave tb an activity jump), could've just kept the ball rolling.
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Last edited by Lucy; Nov 26, 2017 at 07:24 AM..
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Old Nov 26, 2017   #103
Retro
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Originally Posted by iPod View Post
I feel like there is no promotion for Toribash.
I recently created a youtube channel and a promo twitter for Toribash.
Some people ask me why. Well the youtube aspect is because I want to promote other things then cool edits.
I want to promote eSports, and many other parts of the community. This is something a Toribash Media Manager should have already had planned out.
Since toribash doesn't have any direct media manager I decided to take things into my own hands.
I also recently created a promo twitter because of the lack of care and moderation within the actual Toribash twitter.
Overall there is basically no promotion going on for Toribash.
Players have to take it into their own hands. Which no-one seems to want to do.

There is no promotion for Toribash, and there hasn't been for some time. Toribash isn't a company ran by a company alike to EA, and advertising, especially on platforms and places that really will provide an intake for players, costs money. Yes, an ad that plays across Youtube would bring in a large playerbase but this can only be done for so long. When Toribash got released onto Steam the initial intake was massive, and it provided an easier way for players to access the game. Initially, I'm sure nobody knew about the game besides older players who found it through their own means. It's unlikely for somebody to come along and find the game now and stay, because of the steep learning curve. I'm sure when Toribash Next gets Greenlight on Steam, we'll come full circle with a ton of new bright players who want to learn the game. Or even people who left and came back with news of a new game, remastered to be even better than before. Nabi Studios, being an Indie Company, can only do so much in terms of actual employment which allows the game to thrive and prosper as it once did, when it was newer. Social Media is neglected because there is only a very small amount of actual employed people that run and manage the game.

Player promotion is basically, as you suggested, what could be done to bring in new players. Youtube does this, amongst some other things. But the sad reality is that this only does so much. Players creating content on youtube for the most part flys under the radar. Concon, Matarika, and others have been doing it for months. Generally their content is only seen by people who already know about the game and that's not what we want. Players can only do so much in this regard. Tell a friend, talk about it on discord, etc. I can say personally I've tried to get many friends to play and stay but the typical response is "Game is too hard, no point in investing time in it." When youtubers with a large fanbase already like ChilledChaos and ZeRoyalViking stumbled upon the game the activity stats went upward for some time, but as they left the game the advertisement for it also faded. Games like Battlerite get youtubers to play their game and rate it. But getting Nabi to do something such as this is a long stretch. I have my doubts you'll get any youtuber/streamer with ton of viewers to play the game for free, especially in an advertisement sort of way.

I understand your points but there's only so much that can be done. The community we have just has to keep it going and make sure the game stays afloat.

Originally Posted by birno View Post
Toribash's Activity died back in 2012. The game got boring, imagine spending 10 years of your life playing the same mod Aikido big dojo, or some parkour/spar mod. It'll eventually piss you off.
People who were adolized by many grew up over the ages of 23, there's no motivation.
So my answer is no.

The game doesn't get boring imo, people grow up and sometimes their lives take up the time they once had to play the game. A game like Toribash has so much content to be explored and once you have a friend group to have fun on the game with, you pretty much never leave. Even people who have stopped playing ingame but still roam IRC and Forums stay for the reason of the bonds that couldn't be forgotten. Activity spikes, yeah. 2012/2013 being highpoints because of the popularity and the advertisement the game was given. Youtubers played it, it was plastered on Steam as a hit Indie Game of the Year winner, now on Steam FOR FREE. That's gone. Though the game is still on steam the hype of it being there is not. Repetition is a problem which is going to be revitalized when TB Next is released. Playing ABD or being a SP Player can get old but you rarely ever have the same exact match frame by frame happen. That's the glory of it. Older players can't afford to play the game from release to present because people grow up. I have college and I fortunately have enough free time that I can enjoy the game and community as much as I want. Others don't have that luxury. Idolized members (whether ex-staff, staff, or legends alike) will always be present in the game whether they play it or they shaped it during their time. Motivation isn't an issue at all.

I have to disagree with you. Does the game have a living community? Hell yeah it does. Albeit small, it's an INDIE game that has survived for more than 10 years. That to me is nuts.

Originally Posted by racci View Post
Honestly, after coming back to this game like once a year for the past couple years it feels like a shell of it's former self. I'd honestly love to say I can still go into a random server and fuck around and have fun but I can't. It's depressing. I want the old community back.

I quit the game to finish Highschool after I was removed from Gamemaster/Event Squad, and when I came back after some months I can say that my opinion of the game stayed pretty much the same. The community shrinks as time goes on and as a result of that, so do some of the older luxuries. At some points in the day it'll be hard to find anything that isn't a public server, player made servers at times are hard to come by. If the Event Squad isn't making a tournament, you'll be lucky to see one. But from the people that do still play the game, sliding into a server and enjoying yourself is possible. Just not as frequent. Wanting the old game back when things were thriving is a thought that everyone wants, but looking forward and ensuring the game grows to that past glory is the goal now. TB Next is looking to revitalize the game and with it, bring new opportunities.


Originally Posted by Lucy View Post
I had a really big connection to toribash, but the recent death(paywall) of wibbles just kinda pushed me far enough from the game.
Plus the way staff act more superior than the common player really gets tiring, yet they deny this being a problem.

I guess what I'm trying to say is basically what RadexHEJOO is saying, mods are too focused on catering to people that cry for the smallest things, what happened to "Grow a thicker skin"? I can remember when this was thrown around a lot when someone complained,
I really love this game but it's not being focused on in the right way.

In conclusion, this game isn't exactly dead yet, it can still be revived with promotions and even reaching out to youtubers, (that steam release really gave tb an activity jump), could've just kept the ball rolling.

There is a very clear delusioned effect that the outside of the community gets, and how staff is portrayed and treated as a result. When I was ES, not even 1-2 years ago, Wibbles didn't exist. When I first played the game in 2010 I don't believe it existed either, but before that presumably it did, and it was a good shitposting outlet. I can't possibly see how Sir/Staff cutting the cord on an actual cesspool of toxic waste pushes anyone away from the game, simply put. It provided nothing for the game besides a place for a few unnamed people to act uneducated outside of their Clan boards for the sake of memeing and shitposting. Clans exist, Ingame exists, and IRC exists which all provide what wibbles did in snippets. Saying that entire board wasn't really bad and just looked bad is just wrong to say. Wibbles was basically just TP/VIP until it became a public thing for a short time. "Wibbles" was already behind a paywall until it became accessible, and when it's moved back there's some uproar which makes it appear as though Staff is evil and shitty, and just hates the game. As I believe somebody once said "If you want to drop the N Bomb [to be funny] Sure, go ahead. But you can pay for wibbles to do so."

I actually can't bring myself to think that paying a measly 1.4k TC for wibbles access suddenly brings armageddon upon the community and drives away forumites that didn't have it for most of their time on the game in the first place. There's a reason that Wibbles was removed and memed, so much that supporting the revival of it made you a laughing stock. With Discord being so prevalent in the gaming world, use the Unofficial TB Server, ask for a wibbles text channel, and fire away.

Staff doesn't act superior to anyone, I don't understand where this misconception even comes from and every time it's brought up it gets shut down with lack of evidence and facts immediately. It's a hilarity to me to see Staff made a scapegoat for being community volunteers and doing what they can to ensure the game they know and love is great. This has been said numerous times. There's a staff complaints sub board if you need to report staff being unreasonably out of question. They get scolded, even if you don't think they do. Firing up somebody who screwed up in public and putting their head in a guillotine doesn't do anything but create more problems than solve them. Alternatively, you can PM Skulfuk or suomynona if you have legitimate problems. They will sort things out if need be and make sure that the right guys know what's going on, and flay them if need be. I can't actually recall any moment when a Staff member intentionally shit on a normal member for the sake of a power hierarchy, besides Stellar who is long gone. Staff doesn't focus on people crying over irrelevant things. Name an instance? Clan Squad was tossed knee deep in feces concerning such an arbitrary topic like Feeder Clans and Multi Clanning, which was promptly dealt with, cleaned up and tossed into S&I. It seems like staff focuses on irrelevant things because only so much can be revealed to public eyes. All Staff Groups are under strict NDA (If you don't know what a NDA is, look it up), meaning what is under the surface stays there. Leak something and normally the result is getting banned + fired, it's actually pretty simple to understand. Every moment of the day staff is doing what they can for the community and while doing the best they can they're also doing a great job at doing so. You might not see it yourself or understand it if you've never been staff, but they are. There's no need to bash them because what you can see is at times lacking or what you consider irrelevant.

Site Devs are also far and few between. As there are not many of them, actual site updates are rare and as a result come infrequently.

The focus on the game might use a bit of honing but things are otherwise fine. Promotions and advertising are likely to come with TB Next. I don't see why this game would be advertised only for TB Next to be released and everybody having to move over to see how things are. Still, things on the player side of things can be done and attempted. The ball will get rolling once again I'm sure.







TL ; DR - Is the community alive? Yeah, we're still kicking.
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Old Nov 26, 2017   #104
BenDover
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Focusing on your comments on advertising:
Advertising firms are expensive, but, we are in an era of social media, social media managers are not expensive.
If you have an inhouse design team, any monkey with half a brain can learn effective social media management.

That aside, we have an established enough art and video community that the need for an inhouse design team is hardly even necessary and we have enough people interested enough in media, streaming etc.
All we need is one person, one person on the management side, someone who knows what to do and how to co-ordinate with people and teams.

You mentioned big youtubers, big youtubers havent fared well playing Toribash, most having zero expectations and zero understanding of the game.
What they are all missing, is context.
An effective manager, could provide "influencers" with context.

When Fords social media teams organise a track day, they dont give them a car and a track and say "have fun", they provide them with an expert, someone who knows the car, someone who knows the track, and tells them best how to enjoy the car.
(Using Ford as an example as Ive had interactions with their social media managers and some of the influencers here in South Africa)

Doing that provides the influencers with context.
Toribash needs the same thing, if you want to leverage exposure from big youtubers, we as a community need some sort of interaction with them.

One guy, running social media.
To communicate with people who matter.
Communicate with people who can create exposure.
Communicate with people who can provide context.

Lol, thinking about it, what we need is Gman80 back.
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Last edited by BenDover; Nov 26, 2017 at 07:34 PM..
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Old Nov 27, 2017   #105
McFarbo
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Originally Posted by BenDover View Post
You mentioned big youtubers, big youtubers havent fared well playing Toribash, most having zero expectations and zero understanding of the game.
What they are all missing, is context.
An effective manager, could provide "influencers" with context.

im one of the best tb players help me setup a youtube channel and we will be a rockin' and a rollin'
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Old Nov 29, 2017   #106
+Ele
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Originally Posted by BenDover View Post
Focusing on your comments on advertising:
Advertising firms are expensive, but, we are in an era of social media, social media managers are not expensive.
If you have an inhouse design team, any monkey with half a brain can learn effective social media management.

That aside, we have an established enough art and video community that the need for an inhouse design team is hardly even necessary and we have enough people interested enough in media, streaming etc.
All we need is one person, one person on the management side, someone who knows what to do and how to co-ordinate with people and teams...

One guy, running social media.
To communicate with people who matter.
Communicate with people who can create exposure.
Communicate with people who can provide context.

Completely agree. I think you should bring this to S&I. Really, you should. If you've the ability (and time), offer to do it yourself.
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Old Nov 30, 2017   #107
BenDover
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Those who cant do, teach.
I seek to do nothing but share my wealth of expert level knowledge to the masses.
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Old Dec 1, 2017   #108
Mallymkun
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I haven't seen the statistics or anything, but from my subjective experience (I may just be getting old, I started playing around 2009) Toribash hit its peak around 2010-11. That's when the game was really busy, and there was a great community to add to it as well. My days of sitting in tourneys and posting replays online have long gone, to the point where I visit the forum irregularly and have lost a lot of good friends I met on here who have moved on with their lives, or changed irreversibly. But you know, I don't blame them; most of us were edgy, excitable kids who were looking for some acceptance online in a community which could give us a certain amount of closure and acceptance that we couldn't get in real life. And now, a few years later, the community of Toribash has already served its purpose for me. This may sound ridiculous, but I've learned how to debate properly and listen to the opposition through my time on the discussion boards, I've learned about cooperation and communication through my time in numerous clans, and I've certainly learned not to piss off mods on any forum I've visited since.

I think that the decision to bring back wibbles was a desperate decision to raise activity. Unfortunately, this resulted in a lack of activity in more productive boards, and this was around the time I stopped posting so much anyways. It's my opinion that the golden days have passed and were a really great thing that the community should look back on, either through memories or the archives because there's some really good shit out there *cough* kitfox does gay porn *cough*...

The recent debate about advertising and promotion is nice, but I do believe such affairs would be an exercise in futility.

Last edited by Mallymkun; Dec 1, 2017 at 03:21 PM..
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Old Dec 5, 2017   #109
Lionet
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umm... Don't really care about me, you have a really deep discussion here but I want to point some statements (sorry if I make grammatical mistakes).

Well, first I want to say to sir that I respect you more than ever before, after reading this thread, you're doing amazing in my point of view.

Now about the community thing, I think this is way too complicated to be completely explained in this thread because there are LOTS of variables to be addressed so I'm going to say a few things we might have in mind and some of my opinions.
The "dying" factor can be interpreted by many ways because there are also many ways to keep our community vivid. I was an adept of the idea of bringing new people to our servers and then approach them to our forum, until now. I figured out that this ACTUALLY could kill this community as well due a big community could countains even more toxicity or any disorders in general. So focusing in maintaining our current players in the game is a good way to keep the community alive.
But for sure this is a really old game and anytime it stops being surprising or inovating, also we need a new era of players to keep this game entertaining.

I want to point that we're talking about theory, most of us aren't really putting it into practice and I noticed there's a truly conflict between (and maybe inside) staff/dev and players. I have a lot of complains about how thing are, how things could be or why didn't someone already do that thing I think about. I see that Ele has a lot of really good ideas, I always see your will to contribute with your sagacity but (please tell me if I'm wrong because I don't mean to be disrespectful, this is just how far my knowledge goes) I've never seen you putting your thoughts into practice that much. I used Ele as example because he's the one I've seen the most but this is a general thing, I feel like you all are charging dev too much. Nothing wrong about demanding, but I saw this exceeding the limits just in this thread.
Also I think our staff is kind of weak since I can't see a clear direction for where we are going and sometimes how it is related to community majorities. We may need new and good people to take the lead or whatever (we may need more quality in staff), but so far so good, we are fine. I think we all shall step back on the beginning ages until now and analyze everything that happened to make the next step (talking in Next <<<< :T).

addendum: I think this game is trash not that good (comparing to the predominant game type that are played the most in actuality) and most of you will probably agree with me but our community is one of the best that could exist IMO and it is the main reason of this game still being alive, and the only thing that we have in common is Toribash in general so... This giving up stuff is bullshit, you can add advertising or whatever, this community can't die.

Sorry if I'm being dumb, that's all. Peace.
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Old Dec 6, 2017   #110
+Ele
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Originally Posted by Lionet View Post
I want to point that we're talking about theory, most of us aren't really putting it into practice and I noticed there's a truly conflict between (and maybe inside) staff/dev and players. I have a lot of complains about how thing are, how things could be or why didn't someone already do that thing I think about. I see that Ele has a lot of really good ideas, I always see your will to contribute with your sagacity but (please tell me if I'm wrong because I don't mean to be disrespectful, this is just how far my knowledge goes) I've never seen you putting your thoughts into practice that much. I used Ele as example because he's the one I've seen the most but this is a general thing, I feel like you all are charging dev too much. Nothing wrong about demanding, but I saw this exceeding the limits just in this thread.

So there's two points here. The first point is about not putting ideas into action, and second one is about players hitting devs too hard.

On the second point, yeah. I think people misdirect their anger here. I think they had good reason to hate on devs in the past though. A lot of people would apply to become (and actually become) devs just so they could say they're devs. It was a status thing and barely anyone actually did any dev-work. So this idea of 'lazy devs' came to the forefront. I think instead of lazy devs, we might just be undermanned. I don't know if Fear does anything (maybe he does, maybe he doesn't), but Sir definitely does. Other than those 2, we have hampa, and who knows what he's up to (working on Next, I guess)...
If people wanna be angry with the state of development, they should be angry at the de facto leader of the devs, Hampa, cus it's his area of responsibility. If things are running slowly or shit, well, it's his wheelhouse - He's in charge there.

On your first point about not turning ideas into action, I'm somewhat infamous for my stubbornness in turning my ideas into action, so you might just be unaware. When I have ideas I think should be implemented, I bring them to the S&I board. If it's a big idea, usually I'll post in Discussion or Off-topic about it too, and I'll add a poll to the S&I thread. At the end of the day though, there's only so much that I (as a regular non-staffer) can do. I have no ability to actually implement my ideas. All I can do is put my ideas out their and try to convince the community and staff that it's a good idea.. But it's the staff who ultimately decide what happens. Sometimes they'll even go against what the community wants - So even if I do manage to convince the community to get behind an idea, the staff can still just say 'Nah'. Because of that, I don't think it's fair to say that I don't put my thoughts into practice - I always attempt to, but I have no decision-making authority to make my ideas reality. That authority belongs to staff leaders.
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