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PLEASE forgive the useless post, but...

ROFL, OMFG, HAS ANYONE EVEN PLAYED SPORE


i have the game, and this is starting to sound too much like the cheezy gameplay of spore, please pardon this useless post but i feel that it is very relevant to scrutinize the rationality of the standard of a life form.
SuicideDo, the Brewtal Drunken Immortal.
Originally Posted by Elkrazar View Post
To be fair, this connotes that the necessary technology to translate from 'Earthling' to 'Quixoan' (I dunno, random keystrokes, we'll pretend that's how we'd pronounce their name) is a prerequisite for intergalactic travel. It doesn't take into account that their scientists might not have considered, "Hey, we might not be completely alone out here, or at least so far removed that it's gonna be a long time before we meet other species out there. How about we work on this pressing problem before we take care of universal translations."

Of course, an advanced culture's scientists might not be so generalized, and there might be a specialist somewhere who went, "I have done it! I can translate any language into our own and vice-versa...all we need is to probe the backside of the species in question!"

Okay, that's facetious, but still...the entire thing is hard to wrap my head around.

Also, who is Stephen Hawking to say that aliens who find us will have the same colonial mindset that the Portuguese, French, Spanish, British, and Germans had? Perhaps they've already wrapped their mind around the idea of the culture shock of meeting another intelligent SPECIES, though less advanced, and have some sort of protocol to deal with it?


I actually disagree with him on that point as well.

I think it's reasonable to assume that any aliens that could visit us will be not only technologically advanced, but advanced socially. Moreover, I think it's improbable that a species which can traverse such great distances would be very hard-pressed for resources, especially ones which Earth just happens to have in a large vicinity (read: i don't think they would have any reason to be hostile).

The worst i expect from such species is abducting some humans and human artifacts for data collection.
Originally Posted by Odlov View Post
I actually disagree with him on that point as well.

I think it's reasonable to assume that any aliens that could visit us will be not only technologically advanced, but advanced socially. Moreover, I think it's improbable that a species which can traverse such great distances would be hard-pressed for resources, especially ones which Earth just happens to have in a large vicinity (read: i don't think they would have any reason to be hostile).

The worst i expect from such species is abducting some humans and human artifacts for data collection.

Uh-oh! But isn't space a resource? We're falling into the trap of assuming that the precedent Dyson set was correct, and that by the time a species would have enough energy to be able to transport its explorers over vast amounts of space in acceptable time, that they would have enough space to hold all of its population. We're also assuming that socially advanced is in our terms: that they wouldn't take our resources because they have enough and it should be good enough for them, that they wouldn't destroy us for being in the way, or just simply like a kid with a magnifying glass does ants.

With all this speculation, we have no way of safely assuming anything: we can only make guesses based on our own precedents, which may or may not be correct.
"Well, I don't want to leave you alone. I want you to get mad!"
Of course it's all speculation.
We can only judge by referents we ourselves have been exposed to, on one spec of the universe.
Still, right now i stand by my little "prediction"

And, dear god, I hope we are not invaded by Objectivist aliens. We're all doomed then.
I must admit, I let out a laugh at that.
"Well, I don't want to leave you alone. I want you to get mad!"
once again.



when human beings essentially "visited" this planet, we wreaked (and still do) havoc on the ecosystem.

frankly, I'd welcome our alien overlords (if they do exist and somehow, bypassing the great vastness of space to visit our little patch of ground and by some perversion decide to conquer it)

I hope they take care of it better than we do/have
...
i love that song.

I think it is weird that hawking didnt consider our own possible hostile attitude at potential future alien lifeforms out of our own collective ignorance/fear, but did think about their potential attitude. Because i would think it just as logical for alien lifeforms to have already discovered us a long long time ago, but just keeping their distance.

-Because we are ignorant and dangerous towards ourselves and others-

and we still have a lot of growing up to do.


His whole statement is ridiculous to me, it is a subject on which can only be guessed, and he puts it like that is the only outcome possible.
That is the problem when people start to call someone a "genius" or "superintelligent" you just get high expectations and whenever they say something you are bound to have human copy machines repeating them without any serious question.
"I dissaprove of what you say, but i will defend to the death your right to say it"
// smuglord
We already have alien bacteria coming in to the earth from meteoroids
// smuglord

There is a rather large possibility that evolution went a drastically different way on the respective aliens' planet(s), meaning that the "implanted" genetic functions of their minds could be entirely different. Perhaps there were circumstances in their world that made working together, for some reason or another, unbeneficial, or any sort of factor in their history really, all of this most likely points to that their society would look a whole lot different from ours. (in addition that the will to power might not even exist in their minds)

This could mean that they're either huge assholes (from the perspective of humans), huge hippies, or have and orange-blue morality (obscure morality) - if we don't have data on how exactly their societies function, what their values are, it's going to be a bit presumptuous to assume that they're all imperialists. (Does that concept even exist for the said aliens?)

I wouldn't be surprised if several alien societies have a very similar structure as human society, but even in human society itself there are huge differences. (the Eskimos, for example, couldn't understand the concept of "war" when it was first declared on them)
tl;dr: deprived is spergin'
It's hard to believe a civilization successful enough to travel so far to Earth would have been able to do so with a society that mirrors our own colonial period, but even if societal technology enables scientific technology and grow in tandem, we could still be doomed by an advanced civilization. Our technology for communication and transportation used to be so bad that people from other towns didn't even trust each other. With technology, cities grew, but now whole countries don't trust each other. And as countries band together, continents don't trust each other. It's quite appropriate to assume one world would not trust the other until communication and transportation both rise enough.
What Hawking assumes though is that their brains are like ours. What if these alien minds socially functioned more like that of ants? We would be crushed for sure then. What if these aliens never had an adult state of mind like ours, perpetually childish in social behavior but having such imaginative thoughts that still allowed them to develop the technology to become space faring?
With assumptions though, Hawking is right; if another race of humans developed else where, they would probably use us.
Last edited by FNugget; Apr 26, 2010 at 08:02 PM.
Originally Posted by FNugget View Post
With assumptions though, Hawking is right; if another race of humans developed else where, they would probably use us.

Probably, but that's contingent upon whether or not they see something they need from us. I would also assume that if an alien species were exploring, they probably aren't doing so just for the hell of it or scientific exploration with "humanitarian" goals (Gene Roddenbery, I'm sorry, but you're a HUGE OPTIMIST), but because they have a shortage of a resource (be it iron, or gold, or labor, or space, or energy) and need to fill that shortage with something that they don't have. Of course, assuming that they're extremely far from us, it's very unlikely that the goal described there would ever initiate contact between us and an intergalactic civilization: the resources and energy to get from point A to point B must be enormous, over that scale, so it'd be utterly impractical. Besides, why steal labor from puny humans when you can genetically engineer industrial behemoths from the genetic resources that are already present?

So many factors, so much time; pretty soon, we'll end up writing our own science-fiction novel.

Junction of Paths, Humanity Encountered; by Discussion.
"Well, I don't want to leave you alone. I want you to get mad!"