Ranking
Ok guys I heard you and understood but still hear me out for a second.
It's an opener like any other opener and a move like any other move, not everyone is using it and I use it sometimes as a opener but let's say I'm in mid battle and my leg is touching the floor and I hold the guy with one of my hands and I can lift him, it's still considered shovel and people still whine about this so basically you disable like 45% of the moves I want/can/could/would do just because...you dislike it?

It's not like he has only one opener, many people have at least two openers and could use whichever they prefer at the given time but comeon why would you just hate someone for doing a move?
The people who call those who shovel faggots have logistics that are un-comprehendable.

EDIT: Also it's not just one move because it can be used from almost any point at aikido fight so there's like billion possibilities and opportunities to use it.
Last edited by Crimson; Jul 23, 2013 at 09:45 PM.
Pendragon = Bandwagon.
people will disliek anything that makes them lose
have you noticed that everything that gives their opponent a good advantage over them is called a "noob" move?
lets say..... ungrabs
when a person has no control of their body, and yu ungrab cuasing them to lose. Ive gotten so much flak off of that
he only thing I dont liek shoveling in is regular aikido.
it takes all the fun out of the game
Have a great day, thanks for looking at this post I guess.
cnc is an endangered resource
Originally Posted by jclark View Post
people will disliek anything that makes them lose
have you noticed that everything that gives their opponent a good advantage over them is called a "noob" move?
lets say..... ungrabs
when a person has no control of their body, and yu ungrab cuasing them to lose. Ive gotten so much flak off of that
he only thing I dont liek shoveling in is regular aikido.
it takes all the fun out of the game

It seriously shouldn't bother or even be your issue what your opponent's move is gonna be because eventually it's challenging your skills and making you better for other and even tougher upcoming challenges.
Pendragon = Bandwagon.
but
if that move is impossible to counter
how would that be making you better?
Have a great day, thanks for looking at this post I guess.
cnc is an endangered resource
Originally Posted by jclark View Post
but
if that move is impossible to counter
how would that be making you better?

Nobody said it was impossible, on the contrary my friend it is very possible and quite easy when you get a bit of practice.
Pendragon = Bandwagon.
Originally Posted by Guy1321 View Post
why would you just hate someone for doing a move?

because executing skilles move for cheap win is not what i call an enjoyable or "fair" game. and this is why i call such people fagots.
Shovelling is boring. That's my problem.

If I'm playing Aikido and someone shovels, my response is to sigh, and detachedly counter it. I still hate it, because instead of having an interesting match, I just go through with a very well practiced counter. Shovelling takes all of the possible fluidity out of an aikido match. Instead of some kind of desperate struggle where you're constantly trying to bring your opponent over you, out of the ring, to the ground, etcetera.

It takes all creativity and skill out of the equation. Even if you have to be skilful to counter a shovel or whatever, once you know how to, it's just boring.
I suppose I could talk about the spirit of competition here or something, but shovelling pretty much kills that too. It forces both players in to a set of pre-determined moves with a highly predictable outcome. Either the person being shovelled doesn't know how to counter it, and unless they're awesomely brilliant and just haven't happened to come up with a counter until that very moment, they'll probably lose. Or they know how to counter it, and the next thing you know the shoveler is probably DQ'd.

I don't see how that's interesting, or fun.

I feel like I should mention that normally I just play for fun, but shovelling forces me to play to win, with little to no fun involved.
Last edited by FrostFyre; Jul 23, 2013 at 11:00 PM. Reason: Oh yeah...
"When you wish upon a star, you are a few million years too late. That star is dead. Just like your dreams."
Originally Posted by snake View Post
because executing skilles move for cheap win is not what i call an enjoyable or "fair" game. and this is why i call such people fagots.

Then counter it and show them that there are better openers? I don't know just stop crying about it and deal with it without offending people ? It's fair, it's not against the rules and there's absolutely no damn reason for you to insult others just because they want to play the game.
Pendragon = Bandwagon.
Originally Posted by Guy1321 View Post
Then counter it and show them that there are better openers? I don't know just stop crying about it and deal with it without offending people ? It's fair, it's not against the rules and there's absolutely no damn reason for you to insult others just because they want to play the game.

What I'm trying to get at is, shovelling is fair, legal, and more boring than watching paint dry. It's not playing the game, it's turning it in bloody rock paper scissors.
"When you wish upon a star, you are a few million years too late. That star is dead. Just like your dreams."
It is a fair move because it is not restricted to either Tori or Uke and works in almost exactly the same way for both of them, plus or minus oddities in floating point math.

If you are assuming your opponent won't shovel, and thus provide an opener which can be effectively shoveled, but they turn around and do shovel, then it is entirely your fault.

If you are assuming your opponent will shovel, and thus provide an opener which can't be effectively shoveled, and they turn around and shovel anyways, then you win and they lose for shoveling. If they don't shovel, then your alternative opener should also be capable of handling the relatively unexpected turn of events.

If shoveling is a powerful move, then assume your opponent will use it, and then design a move which is both interesting if they don't shovel and effective if they do.
Squad Squad Squad lead?
The standardization of Toribash Squad roles may have gone too far!