Toribash
They had both a warrant and proof that he was in one of the either up stairs or down stairs. Furthermore, he WAS there.

So I guess you should read the article first ey, that was pretty embarrassing for you...
Originally Posted by Gorman View Post
How is that a bad idea?

Flash bangs stun and disorientate targets, its a non-lethal way to make sure that the police have the upper hand in any situation. Remember that these cops are walking in to the home of a potential murderer, there is a real chance that if the guy wants to fight back they will be seriously wounded.

No, they're going into two homes, at night, without knocking, when it can be reasonably expected that any innocent civilians would be asleep. They then "stun and disorient" them and charge into their house brandishing guns. Is it so time consuming to set up a safe zone around the house and knock on the door?
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It was a duplex, you make it sound like they are on opposite sides of the city, they were literally right next door.


Time has nothing to do with it. You want to give a murderer time to, I dunno, arm themselves and get in a good position? And knock on the door too? Man, you are giving the murderer not only the element of surprise, but now he also has time on his side too. Not only that, you are going to have them knock on the door first?
I hope you brought enough body bags for the whole squad!


EDIT:
Originally Posted by SilentAssassin View Post
Well I can see if there's a possible murderer there they wouldn't knock, but seriously, they didn't have to whip out their guns.

I advocate NKWs, but the police force (and this is in USA too remember) does not.
The only thing that would keep them alive in a fire fight would be their vests, luck, and ability to shoot the other guy first. Drawing a guy takes .4-.6 of a second (from what I have read, this is average). It takes .2 of a second to track to a target, you want to give the murderer time to shoot 3-4 cops?
Last edited by Gorman; May 19, 2010 at 07:57 PM.
You're saying it as if the murder is already going to have his gun drawn before the cops show up.

It would be a 3 or 4 on 1 situation if the cops went in without guns in hand.
At least 2 would be able to get a shot off.
Originally Posted by Gorman View Post
It was a duplex, you make it sound like they are on opposite sides of the city, they were literally right next door.


Time has nothing to do with it. You want to give a murderer time to, I dunno, arm themselves and get in a good position? And knock on the door too? Man, you are giving the murderer not only the element of surprise, but now he also has time on his side too. Not only that, you are going to have them knock on the door first?
I hope you brought enough body bags for the whole squad!


EDIT:

I advocate NKWs, but the police force (and this is in USA too remember) does not.
The only thing that would keep them alive in a fire fight would be their vests, luck, and ability to shoot the other guy first. Drawing a guy takes .4-.6 of a second (from what I have read, this is average). It takes .2 of a second to track to a target, you want to give the murderer time to shoot 3-4 cops?

Is the murderer not going to be alarmed by the police breaking in, downstairs or to his own home? SWAT teams are trained specifically to enter and neutralize violent targets. Remember that this is why they have flashbangs in the first place. Is 15-20 seconds wait worth endangering civilians?
Last edited by SmileyJones; May 20, 2010 at 05:48 AM. Reason: proofreading
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How does a flashbang endanger citizens? It will just stun them for a little while.
i have a totally post modern tattoo of a scalene triangle.
<DeadorK> fair maiden
<DeadorK> if the cum is going to be in your mouth
<DeadorK> it shall be in mine as well
So you are saying saftey of random citizens (in maybe a 1 in 100 case) > saftey of police (who are wounded on the job daily)?

Well, nice to know how things stand in your mind...


EDIT: Oh wow, that story isn't skewed at all is it? No, defiantly not, I am sure the writer wrote it completely unbiasedly.
EDIT2: OH LOL. She actually claims that the cops used a flash bang to assassinate her father. Wow I really wouldn't take that report seriously...

"Attorney Fiegler has clarified to the media that no police fired from within the home. The bullet came from outside, traveling through the opening made by the flash bomb."
That is right, Fiegler watched the tape with the family, and they are claiming the child was killed by a sniper.

Are you guys reading this? XD

She also seems to claim that everyone knows that there are children sleeping on couches, I mean, I slept in my bed, but hey whatever. Why on earth does she think the fact there were children in the house means they shouldn't go after a murderer? >_>
Last edited by Gorman; May 20, 2010 at 05:39 AM.
Lol, I figured that rather than pulling some other case of a flashbang injury out, I'd find one related to this incident. That attorney's going to have some explaining to do, hopefully with a copy of the video the article rambles about. Terrible journalism or not, the girl was wounded by the flashbang.

I certainly believe the police should do everything they can to protect civilians, when they are specifically trained to protect civilians. That doesn't mean I don't care about their safety. I'm not saying they should never use flashbangs, or no-knock warrants, what I'm saying is they shouldn't when they don't have the information to protect the lives of everyone involved.

Increasing the stress and uncertainty of the situation can also be dangerous for police. What if the shot had hit another officer? What if someone had been in the house who legally owned a gun, and grabbed it when they heard people breaking into their front door unannounced? Using these tactics needlessly endangers officers as well, not just civilians.
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