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Originally Posted by Redundant View Post
Putin officially denies that those soldiers are Russian. It's just another tool to annoy the West.

Ok, but that does not change that the population loves them. Obviously they are Russian. What do you think the soldiers are doing there? They occupy crimea (with the population's consent). I don't think they're there for any other reason than preserve crimea, maybe until the bridge is built.
f=m*a syens
If it had to escalate in a third world war, wouldn't that bring out nuclear weaponry which could end up killing most/all of the world's population?
If you think about it, even if the nuclear bombs/weapons don't hit our country, the gases will still travel within the Earth's atmosphere, therefore making it impossible to live.

Do you think this would happen if it had to escalate to World War III?
<Icky> Butler is the worst es
<Reta> can I fire him yet ?
Originally Posted by Butler153 View Post
If it had to escalate in a third world war, wouldn't that bring out nuclear weaponry which could end up killing most/all of the world's population?
If you think about it, even if the nuclear bombs/weapons don't hit our country, the gases will still travel within the Earth's atmosphere, therefore making it impossible to live.

Do you think this would happen if it had to escalate to World War III?

No. Three things about nuclear holocaust (a lot of nuclear weapons used in a short timespan) are deadly, in order from least powerful to most powerful.

1) Initial blast
2) Nuclear fallout that travels with the wind (poisonous or radiactive particles)
3) Nuclear winter. The dust created by all these explosions would block off sunlight for a long time (multiple years) causing life on earth to become extremely difficult.
f=m*a syens
Arglax: you missed the third side in your big post, USA.
They still want to get Ukraine join NATO and to place their rockets there. Basically that's what they are doing now (see Kerry's arrival to Kiev) when offering the Ukrainian government $1 billion.


Also there's another "big player" who is still not taking any actions, China. I'm pretty sure that when the situation becomes really serious (and not exaggerated by the press) they will say their word.
Originally Posted by Arglax View Post
Ok, but that does not change that the population loves them. Obviously they are Russian. What do you think the soldiers are doing there? They occupy crimea (with the population's consent). I don't think they're there for any other reason than preserve crimea, maybe until the bridge is built.

Saying the population loves them is a bit of a stretch.
There are a lot of pro EU protests, a lot of pro Russian celebrations as well.
They may not be in the same region, but the country is one.
If people in Crimea consent to become part of Russia again that's another thing, but it shouldn't be initiated by Russians exploiting the current situation and moving thousands of soldiers in.
I doubt Putin is doing it for altruistic reasons.
How are you?
Originally Posted by sir View Post
Arglax: you missed the third side in your big post, USA.
They still want to get Ukraine join NATO and to place their rockets there. Basically that's what they are doing now (see Kerry's arrival to Kiev) when offering the Ukrainian government $1 billion.

Also there's another "big player" who is still not taking any actions, China. I'm pretty sure that when the situation becomes really serious (and not exaggerated by the press) they will say their word.

I didn't know about the USA. I didn't know about their interests in the missile site. I do know that China silently showed support to Russia, though. They're gearing up, probably. Maybe they're even excited about a war.

Originally Posted by Redundant View Post
Saying the population loves them is a bit of a stretch.
There are a lot of pro EU protests, a lot of pro Russian celebrations as well.
They may not be in the same region, but the country is one.
If people in Crimea consent to become part of Russia again that's another thing, but it shouldn't be initiated by Russians exploiting the current situation and moving thousands of soldiers in.
I doubt Putin is doing it for altruistic reasons.

Look at this map:




It's not one country.
f=m*a syens
Election results to prove that Ukraine should be separated is a bit of a stretch as well.
You could say the same about many countries. ;o
Belgium, for example.

but yes, I agree that separation is one of the possible outcomes of this situation.
Not the worst scenario either, even though the pro-west side would be rather crippled and probably not able to join the EU since they'd have nothing of value left.
Last edited by Redundant; Mar 5, 2014 at 11:21 PM.
How are you?
Originally Posted by Redundant View Post
Election results to prove that Ukraine should be separated is a bit of a stretch as well.
You could say the same about many countries. ;o
Belgium, for example.

but yes, I agree that separation is one of the possible outcomes of this situation.
Not the worst scenario either, even though the pro-west side would be rather crippled and probably not able to join the EU since they'd have nothing of value left.

I definitely didn't mean to convey that I wanted to see Ukraine separated. I just wanted to show how divided it is and that it is perfectly possible for one side of the country to love the russian occupation, and one other side to fight it.

As for separation, that will only make stuff worse in the long run.

- North/South-Korea situation
- Berlin after WWII
- The 'pro EU' part of the country isn't as strong economically... though that could be solved by the €11 billion the EU has just recently offered Ukraine
f=m*a syens
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gregsate...ng-in-ukraine/
I'll just leave it here, in case you don't know yet. Would be great if many Russians could understand it, but their "look form the inside" is already changed by russian media.
S | B | F
Originally Posted by shevaroller View Post
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gregsate...ng-in-ukraine/
I'll just leave it here, in case you don't know yet. Would be great if many Russians could understand it, but their "look form the inside" is already changed by russian media.

This article contains many things that I believe to be true. But I don't know what I can know is true anymore. Russia is a propaganda machine. Ukraine is a propaganda machine. The USA is a propaganda machine. Most of the 'sources' outside Ukraine/Russia or countries near those get their information from what they see/hear happening from a distance.

It also bothers me that the page links to other forbes pages as sources, as if those would be unbiased.

I also disagree that Ukraine is not a divided country. It is definitely divided. The article states that it's all exaggerated, but as the map that I showed earlier shows: there is a strong division in political viewpoints. This is a fact that can be traced, and it adds a new dimension to the whole situation.

I think that the whole situation would have been a lot different if there weren't parts of ukraine that actually like Russia.
f=m*a syens