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Old Jul 8, 2017   #1
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Modern Feminism
I'd like to get everyone's opinion, since YouTube compilations don't really give any kind of actual answers, but just to make you think how stupid these people are.

In my opinion, modern feminism is disgusting. Not the concept for protesting for equal or women's rights, but the fact that these women practically scream in anyone's face who thinks feminism is retarded or something. What do you think? The thing that makes them seem like idiots is the fact that they don't do any research, they just go in guns blazing. I don't get why these women take the concept of protesting and flip it upside down. I don't get why these people are so aggressive for simply no reason at all.

I don't know, just a thought. What do you guys think?
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Old Jul 9, 2017   #2
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The fact that people still consider all of modern feminism to be groups of shrill women demanding female superiority is the reason why modern feminism still exists.

Let's get something clear. There are some people who consider themselves feminist, and demand female superiority. That does not mean modern feminism is defined by these people, nor does it mean feminism is reflected by these people. It's the same reason why you wouldn't see a group of white supremacists and assume all white people are white supremacists. There are always people who are more extreme in their views, but that doesn't necessarily reflect the population as a whole. It doesn't help that media representation of feminism cherry picks the extreme sides of feminism because it provides more entertainment value to see an extremist run their mouths than to hear rational pleas for equality based on studies and research.

And let's also be clear, gender equality does not exist in all places of society. Women still face some pretty severe discrimination compared to male counterparts. It can range from wage discrimination, healthcare needs being neglected, or being treated negatively in society. Double standards still are prevalent in conventional views against women. Authoritative women are seen as bitchy, while authoritative men are seen as strong leaders. There are a lot of things I could list, but the point is that there are still segments of society that are not truly equal.
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Old Jul 9, 2017   #3
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Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
The fact that people still consider all of modern feminism to be groups of shrill women demanding female superiority is the reason why modern feminism still exists.

Let's get something clear. There are some people who consider themselves feminist, and demand female superiority. That does not mean modern feminism is defined by these people, nor does it mean feminism is reflected by these people. It's the same reason why you wouldn't see a group of white supremacists and assume all white people are white supremacists.
There are always people who are more extreme in their views, but that doesn't necessarily reflect the population as a whole. It doesn't help that media representation of feminism cherry picks the extreme sides of feminism because it provides more entertainment value to see an extremist run their mouths than to hear rational pleas for equality based on studies and research.

And let's also be clear, gender equality does not exist in all places of society. Women still face some pretty severe discrimination compared to male counterparts. It can range from wage discrimination, healthcare needs being neglected, or being treated negatively in society. Double standards still are prevalent in conventional views against women. Authoritative women are seen as bitchy, while authoritative men are seen as strong leaders. There are a lot of things I could list, but the point is that there are still segments of society that are not truly equal.

This ^

In any ideology there will be idiots among that said ideology. And as feminism basically seeks to improve the conditions for half of the fucking human population, there will be loads of nuttys.

But that said, to have the view that women and men are absolutely equal already and that feminism is completely useless is also dumb. Women got the same voting rights as men in 1928 in the UK.
That's literally one human life ago. If you think society changes from a completely unequal to absolutely equal in the span of a single human life, you are either dumb or willfully misunderstanding society.

Surely the situation is pretty good these days, especially among the youth.
But to say "In my opinion, modern feminism is disgusting", just shows how immature you are.

Last edited by cowmeat; Jul 9, 2017 at 05:05 AM..
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Old Jul 10, 2017   #4
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@cowmeat - you imply there are lots of ways in western culture that women are discriminated against, could you name some? Preferably systematic forms of discrimination where the law is involved
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Personally I dont have anything against feminism in general its a great concept, but in western culture I dont see a plethera of ways in which women are systematically discriminated against - all the campaigns and marches you see are about western culture when I believe they should be focusing on hardships faced by women in places like the middle east.

The wage gap as an example is what people campaign on in western countries - most countries have laws passed stating that a woman cannot be paid less than a man for the same job as a result of their gender, women do earn on average less than men, but not for the same job and it tends to be as a result of life choices (including education choices) as a case in point my parents earnt about the same until I was born, they were in the same profession, when I was born my mum dropped out of that carreer to look after me, now she has the same qualifications as my dad and earns considerably less, she would be used to show there is a wage gap but its not discrimination its a life choice my parents made together (including the fact my mum would drop out of work not my dad).
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Last edited by SmallBowl; Jul 10, 2017 at 04:01 AM.. Reason: <24 hour edit/bump
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Old Jul 10, 2017   #5
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Originally Posted by SmallBowl View Post
@cowmeat - you imply there are lots of ways in western culture that women are discriminated against, could you name some? Preferably systematic forms of discrimination where the law is involved

- all the campaigns and marches you see are about western culture when I believe they should be focusing on hardships faced by women in places like the middle east.

Are you just being stupid for conversation's sake? I will assume you are and dignify that statement with a response.
If you fail to see any inequality past the law you are either actually a full blown idiot or willfully misunderstanding what inequality is. Imagine you telling a black man in the 60's that he is just being whiny, that he is treated completely equally under the law and so is not being discriminated against. And on top of that he should focus on South African black people being treated worse.

Surely women don't face the same harsh discrimination and inequality as black people did back then. But the principle is the same.
The law is only a small part of how society works.

If the only form of discrimination you can think of is by law, I have some news. Let's look at some data about the UK, that being your home country.
Out of your government's ministers 22% are female. That's an alarmingly small number. Are women biologically less qualified to become high ranking government officials or are we possibly seeing a societal notion that men are somehow better leaders, and that it's a mans job to lead?
I would say the latter. Unless literally biologically women simply are massively worse leaders than men, what is the other explanation?
How about in business, out of the FTSE100 companies, there are literally more CEO's named John than there are women CEO's.
Only 7 women are the CEO's of their respective FTSE100 companies.
How about USA? Looking at fortune 500 companies, there are 23 women CEO's, that 4.6%, just let that number sink in. Again, no discrimination here since it's not by the law? AMIRIGHT?
In traditionally technical and mathematical fields women have twice the unemployment rate as men do.
Could that be because women are twice as bad at tech and math than men are, or that we see work relating to technology and mathematics to be a man's job in our society?

If you just fail to acknowledge these inequalities (which there are more of) I don't think I have anything more I can say.
Now I'm not saying we need women quotas and that law needs to be reformed. But we most definitely still have societal expectations for women and men that are vastly different. It's getting better, but to there not be any inequality, is a conclusion only an idiot can arrive at.

https://www.dol.gov/wb/stats/Compute...ology_2014.htm
https://www.dol.gov/wb/stats/stats_data.htm
http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/docserv...88021EF8B4E9C5

Inb4. but men also face some discrimination so feminism is dumb.
Also did not mention the vage gap since it's a very complicated discussion requiring it's own thread.

Last edited by cowmeat; Jul 10, 2017 at 06:52 AM..
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Old Jul 10, 2017   #6
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So what Cowmeat?

Yeah, there's differences between men and women, and yeah, they both gravitate towards different professions. This is not some hidden, societal inequality, this is just reality. We 'choose' different things. These are choices. There's no actual discrimination stopping women or men from entering fields their sex strays away from. Maybe you'd get some odd looks from some coworkers at first, but that's hardly discrimination.

You're equating equality with equality of outcome, instead of equality of opportunity.

Hopefully you're just doing that for argument's sake ;)

Last edited by Ele; Jul 10, 2017 at 07:36 AM..
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Old Jul 10, 2017   #7
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Originally Posted by Ele View Post
So what Cowmeat?

Yeah, there's differences between men and women, and yeah, they both gravitate towards different professions. This is not some hidden, societal inequality, this is just reality. We 'choose' different things. These are choices. There's no actual discrimination stopping women or men from entering fields their sex strays away from. Maybe you'd get some odd looks from some coworkers at first, but that's hardly discrimination.

You're equating equality with equality of outcome, instead of equality of opportunity.

Hopefully you're just doing that for argument's sake ;)


There is no clear line between equality of outcome and equality of opportunity. What part of societal pressures don't you understand?
If you are told from an early age that you will become a housewife, guess what, you will most likely become a housewife.
You literally saying that women are just choosing not to be leaders and high payed professional because of their biology.
Or if you want to back up on your words and acknowledge that societal pressures and expectations apply, you then kind of have to acknowledge that those expectations create inequalities.

"Maybe you'd get some odd looks from some coworkers at first, but that's hardly discrimination."

THIS IS EXACTLY FUCKING DISCRIMINATION.
Having a bigger entry barrier to a profession because of your gender is the absolute definition of discrimination.
How on earth can you say with a straight face that having to worry about odd looks because of your gender in a profession is not discrimination? Disgusting

Hopefully you can make some wibbles threads about this topic, community manager ;=)

Last edited by cowmeat; Jul 10, 2017 at 07:55 AM..
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Old Jul 10, 2017   #8
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Originally Posted by cowmeat View Post
There is no clear line between equality of outcome and equality of opportunity. What part of societal pressures don't you understand?
If you are told from an early age that you will become a housewife, guess what, you will most likely become a housewife.
You literally saying that women are just choosing not to be leaders and high payed professional because of their biology.

Nobody is told they're going to be a housewife nowadays. It sounds like you're basing American society off what you've seen in Mad Men - That's set 50 years ago. You're vastly exaggerating the level of societal pressure women have to pick women-friendly jobs.

And yes, surprise surprise, because of their biology, men and women are good at and find different value in different things. Naturally, this extends to job choice. This doesn't make me some sexist monster, it makes me woke.


Originally Posted by cowmeat View Post
"Maybe you'd get some odd looks from some coworkers at first, but that's hardly discrimination."
THIS IS EXACTLY FUCKING DISCRIMINATION.
Having a bigger entry barrier to a profession because of your gender is the absolute definition of discrimination.
How on earth can you say with a straight face that having to worry about odd looks because of your gender in a profession is not discrimination? Disgusting

It's not a bigger entry barrier at all. Equality of opportunity is present. It's odd looks (and it's 'hypothetical' odd looks). For as many people giving odd looks, there'd likely be 3 times more people happy and excited about the addition of a minority opposite sex person to their workplace.

Also wtf. Play nice.

Last edited by Ele; Jul 10, 2017 at 08:31 AM..
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Old Jul 10, 2017   #9
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Originally Posted by Ele View Post
things

Well your point in all of your posts has been.

"women biologically just don't want to be in the most respect positions in our society, it has nothing to with societal pressures or expectations"


I don't think I need to say much more here.
You are being very "Woke" indeed.

Last edited by cowmeat; Jul 10, 2017 at 08:38 AM..
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Old Jul 10, 2017   #10
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Gonna leave this here as a friendly reminder that this discussion is warmly welcome to the board, but personal digs and unnecessary rhetoric will be swiftly removed.
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