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Old Sep 1, 2017   #21
Kitty
 
5th Dan Black Belt
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 498



I think devs got too lazy.

Some staff members try super hard to keep things new and interesting while nothing about the game really changes.

Seeing staff bring back lotteries, revamp shiai tokens, change ranking system and offer rewards for it are all things that i think have positively changed the game for the better.

where should it go now? I think fighting other players should not be the ONLY thing to do in the game. There should be a more open world type environment where you can walk around in 3rd person in a lobby or something, trade items in game, etc...

you should be able to move your tori around in game and trade in game WHILE you wait in queue

this is 2017, people are busy. NOBODY wants to wait in the queue just to miss their turn.

If players arent utilizing 90% or more of their game time actually doing something, they will find something more productive to do.

And people wonder why everyone leaves this game.

This is what i think toribash next should be like.
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Old Sep 1, 2017   #22
Retro
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Originally Posted by Kitty View Post
I think devs got too lazy.

Some staff members try super hard to keep things new and interesting while nothing about the game really changes.

Seeing staff bring back lotteries, revamp shiai tokens, change ranking system and offer rewards for it are all things that i think have positively changed the game for the better.

where should it go now? I think fighting other players should not be the ONLY thing to do in the game. There should be a more open world type environment where you can walk around in 3rd person in a lobby or something, trade items in game, etc...

you should be able to move your tori around in game and trade in game WHILE you wait in queue

this is 2017, people are busy. NOBODY wants to wait in the queue just to miss their turn.

If players arent utilizing 90% or more of their game time actually doing something, they will find something more productive to do.

And people wonder why everyone leaves this game.

This is what i think toribash next should be like.

Devs being lazy is a very arbitrary thing to say, given with what they can work with. When most people think "Toribash Developer" they think Hampa, because that's a large portion of the development and where decisions are made. Being an Indie game ran by a, I would assume, small indie company means Development is slow and staggered, if at all. The Development team is small and as a result things that are rolled out are small changes to a very dated game engine. That said, In the span of Toribash's lifetime there's been a fair bit of consistent change that has been solid enough improvement to keep the game relatively fresh while maintaining the core premise. From 2010 when I started and forward, Toribash has changed enough to where it has been more or less enough to have older people who adored the game stay. However, Toribash Next is innovation that has already promised a lot of new features that will make the game feel new for everyone, old and new.

As an ex-Gamemaster (now Event Squad), being apart of Staff does not automatically grant you the ability to change the game itself in order to make things new for players. Hosting Events is the main role (for the most part) and this provides this section of staff an outlet of creativity to add another layer of things for the standard playerbase to do. Even higher staff positions have set limits that, in actuality, can't really alter the game to change things tremendously. Though, what can be changed by staff is always a matter of "can it be done with the resources we are granted" because at times, simplistic things take ages to be implemented, even to the forum. It took a disgusting amount of time to devise and add a solid ranking system to the game. Even now it has its issues which are being sorted out. Blaming Staff for the death of the game and others crying corruption has nothing to do with the state of the game. Being a Game Design and Simulation Major has granted me a lot more insight on this.

With Toribash in itself, there's typically was/is a lot of performance issues on lower end devices which simply can't be fixed much with the dinosaur the game runs on. An open world environment is simply not possible with this version of the game, and I personally find it to be a redundant feature. Providing UIs for things that could be done on the forums is useful, but impractical when it's easier and less coding for a feature that'll likely be neglected anyways. The Market and Shop would always be a primary source for TC income. The ingame Shop I can say I've never used it, because my forum is usually always open. It's more or less utility for the newer community, but giving less initiative to use the forum is not the direction to go.

Remaining within the realm of possibility, having a Freeplay during queue just seems like it'll create more issues than the benefits that would reap from it. If you want to Freeplay during a long queue, open a second Toribash. Chat to people, use your Internet Browser. There's options. If you honestly believe that people leave the game because they can't spend their time during queue clicking their Tori then you're mistaken. The game has an extremely steep learning curve. I would love to get stats on how many players stay after their first year of playing, compared to those that leave during this game. The game is hard to pick up. From personal experience my friends say they love the game and everything about it, but learning what to do and how to do it efficiently is very hard and time consuming. However, this isn't what this thread is about.

Segwaying off of that reply, the game has changed for the better and only improving. This effort being a combination of Staff, the playerbase, and Developers. 7 Years ago I would have never imagined of a matchmaking system where you have a rank and could climb. Or where graphics could be this smooth while maintaining performance. Or even seeing a diverse staff that grows and works to make sure everything works and is orderly. Even without major gameplay changes the community regardless of its size has worked hard to change the game for the better. It's astounding how the game is still kicking after all this time. But how can it improve from here?

I don't believe the forum has underwent any Insane changes, as in an entire overhaul. Though it wouldn't do anything to make the game itself better, a smoother and newb friendly interface would do a lot to making newer players use the forum more and not feel lost and confused. It would be a big step in terms of improving the spark for the part of the community who primarily use the forums, and giving a hand to newer players so they can learn the game through the forum if not playing.

TL ; DR - Blaming staff makes no sense, and a small Development team plus the old engine staggers the game moving forward. The path for improving toribash now is to let new players stay, and straying away from QoL changes that will be neglected for the most part anyways.
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Old Sep 1, 2017   #23
Kitty
 
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I agree with most of what you said. To be clear, i wasn't blaming the staff at all, i was thanking them for taking their time to make the game interesting where the devs could not.
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Old Sep 3, 2017   #24
Derzai
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the game died

replay making became too tedious for any of the good players to continue doing since there were probably 10 people at any given time that could give legitimate cnc other than some fucking stupid shit like "omgf ou a fuckin epic beast monsta "

90% of staff just happens to be the same person with multiple accounts (Grab a personality!) or just inactive

dueling and marketing are dead because this game is terrible for making any semblance of a decent profit for how much work you have to put in

ingame events are kind of ok
betting servers are quite often shit (see DUELING!)

but yeah there's really no reason to play this game past having fun with friends (and that's very limited, this shit gets boring very quick if you don't know how to play it)

it's a difficult game and new players don't want to play difficult games
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Old Sep 4, 2017   #25
Oaky
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I miss that omg moment when hampa joins the room.
Also i have a feeling that there are less GM/ESTourneys.



Also i miss the players that did incredible stuff. First there were Noweb, Chezda and Dafe and everyone thought wow i wanna be that guy.

Then Nuthug did his first realism replay and everyone was like wow i will never be as cool as that guy.

And then there were Swexx and largekilla and the replays were so good everyone was like wow i cant even (bc it was 2010)

well since then nothing fancy has happened really.
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Old Sep 4, 2017   #26
Unicorn
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Originally Posted by Derzai View Post
the game died

it didnt. the community has become a little bit smaller over the years but overall it held its activity thanks to the work alot of people have put into it. also the release with toribash next will probably give it a fresh hype.

replay making became too tedious for any of the good players to continue doing since there were probably 10 people at any given time that could give legitimate cnc other than some fucking stupid shit like "omgf ou a fuckin epic beast monsta "

someone who is good at what they do, doesnt needs alot of outstanding people to cnc on their stuff. i was a long time together with jaker in a clan, that guy knew what he wanted and how to achieve it, he didnt need any cnc on something he was passionate about and im pretty sure any replay maker who really put in effort, doesnt need someone else to tell him how to make a skeet better or whatever, as he knows.
mostly new people who are quite oblivious to their mistakes because they dont have the experience need cnc to know what to work on. the good replay makers know how to do they just need the motivation and time to do it.

90% of staff just happens to be the same person with multiple accounts (Grab a personality!) or just inactive

i see you haven't had much contact with all of the staff yet.
althought i have to agree its "somewhat" true because you just need a certain personality trait to even want to become a staff member, apparantly its a trait that gets noticed after a while, but is it too bad? as long the people do their job, you arent distracted and enjoy your time whats so bad about it?
you aren't FORCED to interact with staff unless something bad happens and then i am certain they are all willing to help you out.

dueling and marketing are dead because this game is terrible for making any semblance of a decent profit for how much work you have to put in

at this point, i unfortunatley have to agree with you. to a certain degree.
dueling is an issue as there are mostly "elite" players around who know their mods and know their ways to abuse it to get all your stuff. they make profit off it, but not enough that it was worth it to get to the point. i've actually talked to diamond about that once and he basically "regrets" spending that much time on this game because there is so little payoff.

the market currently is a little dominated by a few people, but you can still make profit for your own gain, cooler items and everything if you spent enough time on it. its not like in CS:GO where u spent a month trading stuff and end up with 100$ profit. but u will have nice stuff at the end regarldess.

ingame events are kind of ok
betting servers are quite often shit (see DUELING!)

can you elaborate more on why betting servers are shit?
they are commonly hosted by the COMMUNITY who spent their own money to have fun with others. in how many other games do you see the community actually doing something where also others have a huge gain in? (its almost like giving away free money most of the time)

but yeah there's really no reason to play this game past having fun with friends (and that's very limited, this shit gets boring very quick if you don't know how to play it)

well we now have a ranked ladder that can give you certainly a reason to play more than just for fun. also after all there are still duels, marketing etc. if you havent reached the point where u dont want to have a nicer tori.
also, prestige within the community, its so small people are quickly recognized for being good players/replaymakers/artists and get their share of the fame. not all people like that, but its also something to work for.

it's a difficult game and new players don't want to play difficult games

it is difficult to get the hang of it, once you understand how the core of the game works and how to achieve the things u want to, the game gets incredible easy. its basically the opposite of most games nowadays, people are just used to get everything handed to them without thinking twice about it.
only then, after they played enough they decide to actually understand and become better at it.




anyways, the community is currently a littler smaller than it used to be from my view, we still have the same influx of new users as it always been and about the same amount stays for a little longer.
i do believe that toribash next will increase the playerbase atleast for a year by a good margin and that probably a few old players will return for a while and a few new players will stay longer.
by all means, the game has changed to the better over years, personally i haven't come across a single thing i really disliked which had been done.
except well, maybe returning wibbles but thats mainly because i hate such an amount of memes.
the only thing i really miss is that the people i used to play with years ago arent around anymore, which isnt too bad as there are still a ton of other amazing people around. its just sad to see people go u have talked daily to for years.

im no regular in the discussion board plz forgiv my mistakes
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Old Sep 8, 2017   #27
TyZi
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people have a lot less fun with the game, seems like servers where groups of friends playing random ass mods don't exist anymore, i think the game doesn't really do a good job getting me to open it since everything is done on the forum. hence, why everyone is forum active and not ingame active

hate to be that guy, but whats with all the new guys who think the game has drastically changed?

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Last edited by SmallBowl; Sep 8, 2017 at 10:04 AM..
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Old Sep 9, 2017   #28
Demon
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it didnt. the community has become a little bit smaller over the years but overall it held its activity thanks to the work alot of people have put into it. also the release with toribash next will probably give it a fresh hype.

http://steamcharts.com/app/248570#All
peak players going consistently is safe to say a game is dying

someone who is good at what they do, doesnt needs alot of outstanding people to cnc on their stuff. i was a long time together with jaker in a clan, that guy knew what he wanted and how to achieve it, he didnt need any cnc on something he was passionate about and im pretty sure any replay maker who really put in effort, doesnt need someone else to tell him how to make a skeet better or whatever, as he knows.
mostly new people who are quite oblivious to their mistakes because they dont have the experience need cnc to know what to work on. the good replay makers know how to do they just need the motivation and time to do it.

do u know how discouraging it is to never get any replies on replays you put hours into consistently?
you can't be motivated if you're putting a lot of effort in to shit nobody cares about

especially if you are newer to replay making and you think everything you do looks like shit, but nobody will tell you what you're doing wrong or how to improve

i see you haven't had much contact with all of the staff yet.
althought i have to agree its "somewhat" true because you just need a certain personality trait to even want to become a staff member, apparantly its a trait that gets noticed after a while, but is it too bad? as long the people do their job, you arent distracted and enjoy your time whats so bad about it?
you aren't FORCED to interact with staff unless something bad happens and then i am certain they are all willing to help you out.

no, i haven't had much contact with the staff because i know i would not like them
since they all say the same boring shit over and over again
the same joke
it's impossible to get involved with this community unless u really find the same shit funny every time someone says it

at this point, i unfortunatley have to agree with you. to a certain degree.
dueling is an issue as there are mostly "elite" players around who know their mods and know their ways to abuse it to get all your stuff. they make profit off it, but not enough that it was worth it to get to the point. i've actually talked to diamond about that once and he basically "regrets" spending that much time on this game because there is so little payoff.

bbbbbb

the market currently is a little dominated by a few people, but you can still make profit for your own gain, cooler items and everything if you spent enough time on it. its not like in CS:GO where u spent a month trading stuff and end up with 100$ profit. but u will have nice stuff at the end regarldess.

you need to put in an insane amount of hours to get any items that anyone thinks are cool, other than like 3d items and shit like that
you can't even trade a lot of the shit until you reach a certain belt, so why would someone want to have to spend the time marketing, but also spend hundreds of hours getting to that point? getting 100 qi a day is boring as shit

can you elaborate more on why betting servers are shit?

u answered yourself with the so little payoff thing

they are commonly hosted by the COMMUNITY who spent their own money to have fun with others. in how many other games do you see the community actually doing something where also others have a huge gain in? (its almost like giving away free money most of the time)

it's almost like giving away free money until a child buys tc and gambles it all away in 3 days and says "oh well i got to be a part of the community"
also i think i said this but i don't know but it's very rare that good people come in these servers
they usually come in and ask people to duel, and if not then they will probably play but even then it's usually that good person vs someone that nobody will bet on because they aren't as good

"well we now have a ranked ladder that can give you certainly a reason to play more than just for fun. also after all there are still duels, marketing etc. if you havent reached the point where u dont want to have a nicer tori.

referring back to the farming 100 qi a day thing, maintaining rank 1 is not fun either
competitive toribash is not fun
also, prestige within the community, its so small people are quickly recognized for being good players/replaymakers/artists and get their share of the fame. not all people like that, but its also something to work for."

you can't get recognized for those things anymore because nobody cares about them

it is difficult to get the hang of it, once you understand how the core of the game works and how to achieve the things u want to, the game gets incredible easy. its basically the opposite of most games nowadays, people are just used to get everything handed to them without thinking twice about it.
only then, after they played enough they decide to actually understand and become better at it.

toribash gets easy when u know how the game and joints work but that's not easy to learn since it so rarely feels like anything you would think on real life due to the lack of rotation in the joints. not saying this is a bad thing about toribash, it's just why it's so hard to learn


anyways, the community is currently a littler smaller than it used to be from my view, we still have the same influx of new users as it always been and about the same amount stays for a little longer.

huh

i do believe that toribash next will increase the playerbase atleast for a year by a good margin and that probably a few old players will return for a while and a few new players will stay longer.

maybe

by all means, the game has changed to the better over years, personally i haven't come across a single thing i really disliked which had been done.
except well, maybe returning wibbles but thats mainly because i hate such an amount of memes.

not having any actual updates to the game since 3.9

the only thing i really miss is that the people i used to play with years ago arent around anymore, which isnt too bad as there are still a ton of other amazing people around. its just sad to see people go u have talked daily to for years.

ok
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