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Old Sep 8, 2017   #1
+Ele
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Is it OK to punch a nazi?
Alternate title: Are Antifa (anti-fascists) right?

So then, storytime first. I've encountered an Antifa supporter in real life (friend of my roommate)! After some introductory chit chat I noticed he seemed quite radically left, so I asked him to talk about what he thought about Antifa and I received a glowing review of the movement.

I'm not a massive fan of what Antifa does, so I asked him why Antifa think they can go around punching people. His answer came in two parts.

The first part of his answer was him clarifying that they only ever preemptively hit self-avowed Nazis. I told him I knew of reporters and peaceful (non-Nazi) right-wing protestors who weren't Nazis but still got assaulted. He then told me 'We don't get it wrong, they may not say out-loud that they're Nazis, but we can tell if they are'. Buoyed by the look of confusion on my face (I was thinking 'is this guy for real') he continued onto his second point.

He said the reason that they can punch Nazis (or anyone else who they label as Nazis) is because of the institutional power they possess. In other words, the Nazi scum may not be causing any actual harm to people, but they still causing harm to the people because of the 'institutional force' that the Nazis wield.. That's why its OK to preemptively punch 'Nazis', since its not preemptive at all if the Nazis have been wielding and using this 'institutional force' this whole time.

I did attempt to explain the 'harm principle', the difference between what constitutes actual physical harm and what just constitutes hurt feelings, and because of this, I told him that a response of physical violence against someone who hasn't already done the same isn't valid (I stopped short of calling it 'childish').

It seems to me like there's no real neo-Nazi threat (or if there is, its size is greatly exaggerated by Antifa). I think it's just a bunch of angry radical leftists, pissed off at having Trump run shit who promptly decided that political violence is a fine way to manage their anger.

Thoughts on this? Antifa's use of force or just thoughts about Antifa in general?

Last edited by Ele; Sep 9, 2017 at 09:18 AM..
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Old Sep 8, 2017   #2
hipotibor
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Antifa are a bunch of social rejects with no future who usually assault innocent people only when they outnumber them and by using weapons. Though things don't work out for them so well when it's an even fight *flashback to Berkeley protest*. What's frightening is that they think they are somehow contributing to make society better with their "peaceful" demonstrations, where they bash the shit out of everyone's property. People like that should be straight up shot on sight without any remorse. I'm not a nazi for not wanting savage illiterate brown people to immigrate to my country and run over my friends and family with a truck in the name of Allah. People with this mindset are labeled nazis by the western (((media))) so that they can avoid the discussion about how shit islam is. Meanwhile, masked punks are portayed as heroes doing god's work. The US is going to get jewed to death at this rate.
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Old Sep 8, 2017   #3
+Wicked
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Antifa are scum, through and through. Their main target is not to fight nazis or racists but to overthrow capitalism altogether. Many capitalists and those who simply have opposing views to antifa's radical leftism are branded nazis as an excuse to assault them. Silencing your political opponents with threats and violence is a key aspect of fascism, thus making them the people they claim to stand against.

Really, there is so much I could type about antifa but I don't think that this discussion even really needs to take place amongst logical thinking individuals. The vast majority of people I know realize antifa's hypocrisy and dangerously radical nature. You're lucky that through challenging his views you weren't hit with an 8 ball in a sock, I am certain that many people have been assaulted by them for less. See: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-neo-Nazi.html
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Old Sep 8, 2017   #4
TananPro
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Punching someone for being a nazi is the same thing as punching someone for being a liberal or antifa. Hate speech is part of free speech, may you like it or not, you have to respect it as such.
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Old Sep 8, 2017   #5
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i am pro antifa. althought i dislike the radical part of it (which apparantly is the main topic here) but radical, from any side, is bullshit.
i mean you could've made the same thread with the title "is it ok to punch an antifascist?" as this is about as common as punching nazis, or nazis punching any foreign looking people.

i hate nazi's, like literally, i hate them by heart and i show that. i have clothes that indicate i am a part of ANTIFA. (i've got a hoodie which literally says "hate fascism")
and showing that in germany(where im born and living), in cities, at some times, i can expect to get grouped up by nazi's and them punching the shit out of me just for the sake of that hoodie. infact, to friends of mine that already happened.

now i dont know where youre from/living ele to determine how bad that is there.

anyways. in those cases i certainly would try to defend myself, which is probably hopeless as they are never alone, why should they.
a part of answering to those occasions, the antifa does the same to nazis.

would i personally attack a nazi? depends on the occasion. I've luckily never been involved in such a fight yet and i rather not. but if i see a nazi attacking someone i would sure as fuck help out the other side. because fuck nazi scum.

the radical part you mentioned is pretty low compared to the amount of ANTIFA people there are not everyone is out to just punch nazis all day and those who are, are most likely idiots.
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Old Sep 8, 2017   #6
+Wicked
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Originally Posted by BlubKill View Post
i hate nazi's, like literally, i hate them by heart and i show that. i have clothes that indicate i am a part of ANTIFA. (i've got a hoodie which literally says "hate fascism")

Is your definition of nazism and facism someone that disagrees with your views? Or what exactly? Also, please address my point about silencing political opponents with violence, and please explain how that doesn't make you as bad as fascists themselves.

To you, it's seems to be sort of a "well, they commit violence against us too" type argument, and you know that's a stupid argument, right?

At the end of the day, antifa is a violent organisation, it was formed as a military for god's sake. Not only that, but it's main intent is to overthrow capitalism, correct? Don't you think there could be some overlap between genuine facists they are fighting and the capitalists they want to overthrow?

Just a final point, on the ideology of antifa, you mean to tell me that you are militant, far left, radical left and anarchist in your views? Are you 13 years old? Real anarchists hate your damn guts for giving them a bit name, by the way.

Last edited by Wicked; Sep 8, 2017 at 06:53 PM..
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Old Sep 8, 2017   #7
Unicorn
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Originally Posted by Wicked View Post
Is your definition of nazism and facism someone that disagrees with your views? Or what exactly?

no, people who have issue with other ethnicitys, skin color or religion.
fyi there are people which are on neither side, nor left or right. thos probably disagree with my views in certain points.

Also, please address my point about silencing political opponents with violence, and please explain how that doesn't make you as bad as fascists themselves.

as i have mentioned, the violence part is for the radical left people, which are straight up idiots and i do not identify with. i just attempted to explain their point of view on that aspect.
To you, it's seems to be sort of a "well, they commit violence against us too" type argument, and you know that's a stupid argument, right?

well what am i supposed to do against it? yes its a stupid argument, but nazi's will bring up the very same to that topic. so why should i bring more light into that thing. i mean, why do nazi's act violence out towards antifa people?

At the end of the day, antifa is a violent organisation, it was formed as a military for god's sake. Not only that, but it's main intent is to overthrow capitalism, correct? Don't you think there could be some overlap between genuine facists they are fighting and the capitalists they want to overthrow?

ermm.. no?
it may be formed as one, but that was decades ago and their overall goal nowadays is totally different and has nothing to do with capitalism.

antifa as a whole fights against neo-nazism, anti-Semitism, racism, national ideology and nationalism. (which may can differ from country to country. but im talking here about the german part of it.)

yes some of the antifa is violent, but again as i mentioned, just a small part of the whole group. not every antifa member you will meet wants to hit you.

Just a final point, on the ideology of antifa, you mean to tell me that you are militant, far left, radical left and anarchist in your views? Are you 13 years old? Real anarchists hate your damn guts for giving them a bit name, by the way.

i meant to explain it from several points of view of the antifa.
i am far left, by no means radical or militant. and fuck anarchism because thats stupid aswell. im certainly not 13 years old, as i've been holding this opinion for longer than 13 years already.


side note:
im not sure what i should think off someone who has this in his signature, given its even true:

alone that makes me suspect you are probably supporting the right side. as i doubt youre that childish to make it for fun and its common knowledge that those symbols aren't accepted around the internet, even if you may intent the original purpose of it.
im disgusted by people like you who "proudly" and openly would show a swastika. (for anything else but the religious purpose)
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Old Sep 8, 2017   #8
hipotibor
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Originally Posted by BlubKill View Post
no, people who have issue with other ethnicitys, skin color or religion.

Nobody in Europe likes muslim refugees, therefore every european is a nazi. Large groups of actual nazis don't exist anymore. They are the leftists' version of the boogeyman.
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Old Sep 8, 2017   #9
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Originally Posted by BlubKill View Post
yes some of the antifa is violent, but again as i mentioned, just a small part of the whole group. not every antifa member you will meet wants to hit you.

almost every antifa appearance in the US has resulted in violence. all antifa members certainly won't bat an eye when they see a "Fash getting Bashed DDD". communists really think fascism is a bigger threat to the world even though their single ideology has a higher death toll than world war 2's (HOT TAKE!!!!)

by the way, according to a real police department in canada, most american teenage youth males are fascist


http://www.calgary.ca/cps/Pages/Comm...nizations.aspx

Is Your Teenage Son Staying Out Late and really likes Black Sabbath? Well He Might Be Out Oppressing Der Untermensch With His School Friends!

Originally Posted by BlubKill View Post
alone that makes me suspect you are probably supporting the right side. as i doubt youre that childish to make it for fun and its common knowledge that those symbols aren't accepted around the internet, even if you may intent the original purpose of it.
im disgusted by people like you who "proudly" and openly would show a swastika. (for anything else but the religious purpose)

TIL every middle schooler who carved a swastika into the desk during class is a far right winger, just like every middle schooler who has uttered the word "nigger" is racist, and every middle schooler who drew a penis on his friend's math quiz is a homosexual
>:)

Last edited by Moonshake; Sep 8, 2017 at 08:13 PM..
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Old Sep 8, 2017   #10
Oracle
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Originally Posted by Moonshake View Post
by the way, according to a real police department in canada, most american teenage youth males are fascist


http://www.calgary.ca/cps/Pages/Comm...nizations.aspx

Is Your Teenage Son Staying Out Late and really likes Black Sabbath? Well He Might Be Out Oppressing Der Untermensch With His School Friends!

I mean, five of those aren't quite like the others. Some are just general teen angst, the five are actual signs of racist behavior.

Also, that's Calgary. They're known to have strong conservative values, and it's not the first time they've overgeneralized teenage behavior as malignant.
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