Original Post
Matchmaking feedback thread
With 5.0 we've added a new matchmaking feature for more competitive play. The system is still very much in development and I'd like to get community feedback on how we can make it better.
Here are a couple categories of things that have been brought up, to get the conversation started (Feel free to add new things, though):
Below I'll try to compile the suggestions I receive:
Known issues:
Here are a couple categories of things that have been brought up, to get the conversation started (Feel free to add new things, though):
- Season length - currently set to 1 month, suggested 3
- # of games played - currently BO3
- Calculating global/category rank - currently elo is by mods and I think global rank is an average
- Appropriate penalty for leaving matchmaking games
Below I'll try to compile the suggestions I receive:
- Custom win/loss icons (In place of the current x/o)
- Change selection icons to empty square / checkbox
- Match history
- Better notification/confirmation for matchmake
Known issues:
- Elo penalty is applied to both users - should be fixed in next patch
- Some users reporting that matchmaking isn't properly connecting them to a private room, instead moving them to a lobby with multiple players queued
- Matchmaking seems to be selecting grappling regardless of category(s) selected
- Matchmaking is not pausing while playing a fight
- Matchmaking sometimes skips replay and goes straight to next fight
- Grab status persisting between matchmaking fights, even if mod changes to one without grab
Last edited by hanz0; Mar 29, 2016 at 07:44 PM.
"i wish i could do that ken watanabe face where his eyes are really wide" -siku 2015
DONSELUKE, MASTER OF LAWSUIT
if you love america please sign this petition
B&B&B&
Originally Posted by SmallBowl
Please give some actual points about the mod that are relevant the only ones you have given that meant anything were the numbered ones a while back, if you disagree with the inclusion of a mod be prepared for me or anyone else to take you up on that and discuss it with you, if you cant hold your argument in a discussion at all with valid arguments feel free to drop out of the discussion rather than resorting to flame and telling me you dont want to discuss it with me specifically.
Alright I will, and I expect you to do the same.
1. When there is no dq (There is dq but the ring is pretty massive so it hardly matters with such short frames) and a high gravity, balance isnt as important. balance is one of the defining charasteristics of kicking mods.
Look at TK, Erthtk, Kickboxing (even tho its a bad mod), in all of them keeping a proper balance is crucial because if your balance is fucked, your attacks will be bad. In reken going vertical and pushing with hands is an super valid and good option (because of the high gravity) that ignores balance almost completely,
This is almost the defining charasteristic of a stricking mod.
2. You can argue that its 10 tf, so its kicking. But I'd say thats a bad argument. Sure kicking mods have short tf's but that is not the reason they are concidered kicking mods. Aikido has 10 tf in its first turn but that doesnt make it kicking for the first turn.
What makes a kicking mod, is how you play it, and what are the optimal ways to win. If you win by lifting and grappling, its grappling. If you win by going in feet first and going super agressive its stricking. And if you win by reacting, blocking and attacking in a way thats hard to defend, its kicking.
3. 35 gravity. The highest gravity kicking mod currently is erthtk with 15 gravity. 35 is higher than even the most popular grappling mods. Now if there was dq I'd understand the high gravity. There would be a proper purpose to it "keep your balance or lose", but the high gravity without dq almost makes it so that you can ignore balance and just go for push attacks.
4. Modded tori. Now this is one of the biggest reasons why I dislike the mod... At this point I know the default tori pretty well, what combinations of joints in which different gravity does what.
But now that we have like 10 mods to learn in the competitive ranked mode you add a new tori? Having a new force to gravity ratio not to even speak of difference in correlation between joints is a massive thing to learn just for a mod that might or might not be even good.
5. The speed. One of the greatest things about kicking mods is the ability to react and counter. Look at erthtk, you dont have attacks that hit in 10 frames, so the opponent can always react atleast a little bit. But with a faster and more powerful tori, you can create attacks that the opponent cant even react to let alone defend. With so much force and speed, its beneficial to just generate the maximum amount of force and go in like a madman, and we know how good the TB point system is when you do that.
Those are the main points, there are others and I can list more if you want.
Do you accept those as reasonable and noncircular arguments on topic?
Last edited by panttersin; Mar 5, 2016 at 04:43 PM.
Originally Posted by panttersin
Alright I will, and I expect you to do the same.
1. When there is no dq (There is dq but the ring is pretty massive so it hardly matters with such short frames) and a high gravity, balance isnt as important. balance is one of the defining charasteristics of kicking mods.
Look at TK, Erthtk, Kickboxing (even tho its a bad mod), in all of them keeping a proper balance is crucial because if your balance is fucked, your attacks will be bad. In reken going vertical and pushing with hands is an super valid and good option (because of the high gravity) that ignores balance almost completely,
This is almost the defining charasteristic of a stricking mod.
2. You can argue that its 10 tf, so its kicking. But I'd say thats a bad argument. Sure kicking mods have short tf's but that is not the reason they are concidered kicking mods. Aikido has 10 tf in its first turn but that doesnt make it kicking for the first turn.
What makes a kicking mod, is how you play it, and what are the optimal ways to win. If you win by lifting and grappling, its grappling. If you win by going in feet first and going super agressive its stricking. And if you win by reacting, blocking and attacking in a way thats hard to defend, its kicking.
3. 35 gravity. The highest gravity kicking mod currently is erthtk with 15 gravity. 35 is higher than even the most popular grappling mods. Now if there was dq I'd understand the high gravity. There would be a proper purpose to it "keep your balance or lose", but the high gravity without dq almost makes it so that you can ignore balance and just go for push attacks.
4. Modded tori. Now this is one of the biggest reasons why I dislike the mod... At this point I know the default tori pretty well, what combinations of joints in which different gravity does what.
But now that we have like 10 mods to learn in the competitive ranked mode you add a new tori? Having a new force to gravity ratio not to even speak of difference in correlation between joints is a massive thing to learn just for a mod that might or might not be even good.
5. The speed. One of the greatest things about kicking mods is the ability to react and counter. Look at erthtk, you dont have attacks that hit in 10 frames, so the opponent can always react atleast a little bit. But with a faster and more powerful tori, you can create attacks that the opponent cant even react to let alone defend. With so much force and speed, its beneficial to just generate the maximum amount of force and go in like a madman, and we know how good the TB point system is when you do that.
Those are the main points, there are others and I can list more if you want.
Do you accept those as reasonable and noncircular arguments on topic?
1. Im pretty convinced that balance is still important in reken, I have yet to see the tactic you have mentioned work, but I have seen it used a fair few times now. When you dont have balance in this mod you will not be able to build up a swift attack which is what is needed. Also the nature of the hands means that grabbing knees gives you a very good ability to manipulate the movement of the opponent's tori. This makes typical striking openers less likely to work.
2. By this definition I see this mod as kicking, I win my games in it usually by grabbing thighs/knees and kicking with the same leg as the hand I grabbed with, a pretty normal way to win in tk transferred straight into reken.
3. I believe the point in the highgravity is to give you more contact time with the ground so no floating away can happen like in taekkyon, I didnt make the mod however so if you want to know why there is such high gravity Odlov is the person to speak to
4. This is a valid reason to not like the mod but doesnt necessarily make it bad/ and certainly doesnt make it not a kicking mod. If the mod is still consistent its fine.
5. It depends on the attack, on an opener, as a result of the ed and tf. You can set up to defend initially, this doesnt mean its a valid tactic all the way through though. Attacks do have to be precise to break through a defensive opener at the start of the match, there are no attacks I am aware of that will hit in 10tf from the start of the match. I maintain that you need precision on attacks in order to get through a good defense and that going all out attack "like a madman" right from the off is not an optimal tactic in this mod making it more of a kicking mod than a striking mod.
Feel free to list more or reply to these, I do accept these as on topic and non-circular because thats what they are.
Don't dm me pictures of bowls that you find attractive.
Originally Posted by SmallBowl
1. Im pretty convinced that balance is still important in reken, I have yet to see the tactic you have mentioned work, but I have seen it used a fair few times now. When you dont have balance in this mod you will not be able to build up a swift attack which is what is needed. Also the nature of the hands means that grabbing knees gives you a very good ability to manipulate the movement of the opponent's tori. This makes typical striking openers less likely to work.
2. By this definition I see this mod as kicking, I win my games in it usually by grabbing thighs/knees and kicking with the same leg as the hand I grabbed with, a pretty normal way to win in tk transferred straight into reken.
3. I believe the point in the highgravity is to give you more contact time with the ground so no floating away can happen like in taekkyon, I didnt make the mod however so if you want to know why there is such high gravity Odlov is the person to speak to
4. This is a valid reason to not like the mod but doesnt necessarily make it bad/ and certainly doesnt make it not a kicking mod. If the mod is still consistent its fine.
5. It depends on the attack, on an opener, as a result of the ed and tf. You can set up to defend initially, this doesnt mean its a valid tactic all the way through though. Attacks do have to be precise to break through a defensive opener at the start of the match, there are no attacks I am aware of that will hit in 10tf from the start of the match. I maintain that you need precision on attacks in order to get through a good defense and that going all out attack "like a madman" right from the off is not an optimal tactic in this mod making it more of a kicking mod than a striking mod.
Feel free to list more or reply to these, I do accept these as on topic and non-circular because thats what they are.
feel free to play a few games with me and ill disprove most of those just through gameplay
Also post some reasons why the mod is good, and not just try to disprove all of my arguments.
Also on this " I maintain that you need precision on attacks in order to get through a good defense and that going all out attack "like a madman" right from the off is not an optimal tactic in this mod"
Obviously you are correct. Im making it black and white there, but its not as important as it is in tk or erthtk. In lenshu you cant just go in like a madman, but its not as important to "aim" as it is in erthtk and even if youd say it is, its a different kind of aiming because blocking such a massive part of the mod.
Thats the point of that aiming statement
Last edited by panttersin; Mar 5, 2016 at 05:16 PM.
Originally Posted by panttersin
feel free to play a few games with me and ill disprove most of those just through gameplay
Also post some reasons why the mod is good, and not just try to disprove all of my arguments.
Find me in game, if were both online Ill gladly give you a game.
Arguing about points is a good way to get a point across but ok.
1. Consistency
I realize I sound like a broken record over this but consistency is very important for a competitive mod, and as I have discussed before reken is a consistent mod. I understand this is more about why the mod should be in the system at all rather than why specifically kicking but I think its definitely noteworthy and important.
2. Accuracy
As someone who plays a lot of tk, you know how important it is in a kicking mod for your attacks both punches and kicks to be accurate and hit the correct places to get dms. This is particularly evident in this mod where you must attack very accurately in order to make them very difficult to block, otherwise the speed of the arms make most attacks quite easily counterable. This is typical of a kicking mod, if slightly accentuated in reken, for example in erthtk a misplaced kick will get your knee dmed and lose you the match
3. Style of Defense
In order to defend in this mod you need to grab or hit incoming body parts away particularly at the beginning of the match if you try other methods such as dodging or running, such as are typical is striking, you are unlikely to succeed due to the speed and precision of attacks whereas the speed of your arms make blocking with hands quite plausible, this gives a similar style of defense to erthtkv2 where running is not plausible due to the dojo and dodging for the same reason - movement restricted by the dojo. In conclusion of this point the defensive style of reken is typical of a kicking mod rather than a striking mod and grappling isnt really even worth discussing.
Don't dm me pictures of bowls that you find attractive.
