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Old Jan 28, 2015   #11
null
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Originally Posted by protonitron View Post
A lot of you are close with the whole depressed simple human functions being our purpose fandango but it is an unreasonable viewpoint.

saying this not in a derogatory fashion, but out of curiosity -

why open a thread correlated to the contemplation of our own existence if not to expect a heap of melancholy?

you even went as far as to say that "simple human functions" is an unreasonable viewpoint. is that not partly the definition of philosophy?

if philosophy is the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence. then that is a viewpoint, by all means.

Originally Posted by protonitron View Post
What do you think is our purpose (in philosophical or moral terms)?

I understand your compassion for moral purpose, but if you didn't want a philosophical break-down then you shouldn't have inquired, otherwise, people will predominantly assume that is what you want.

there is no reason to be disgruntled by what is inevitably going to happen.
you requested philosophy, and you got it.
that's like ordering a pizza and whenever it arrives, you tell the delivery man to leave because because he is immoral.

it also doesn't mean that we're all depressed & depraved people who just do whatever it takes to get by, we were just under the impression that you were seeking a philosophical point of reference. and to be entirely honest, i'm unsure of what you are trying to convey with this whole "moral purpose" spiel. elaborate a little more next time I guess.

Last edited by null; Jan 28, 2015 at 08:29 AM..
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Old Jan 28, 2015   #12
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I shall humour you with my personal views on the matter because I actually thought a lot about it recently. Well, not about this in particular, but my ideas correlate with the general direction of the topic.

Objectively speaking I am a very sceptical nihilist. That means I do not think there are any objective values that exist outside of a mind.
Everything follows the laws of physics and there is no deeper meaning behind that.
Even if there were a God there would be no deeper meaning behind it because objectively speaking it's just a cause and reaction thing, unless of course you want to imply that God is the universe or something like that. It makes no sense to me to think that the existence of God gives everything one particular meaning because every meaning is subjective and you can think into it whatever you want. Therefore the existence of a magical being would not necessarily change my nihilistic views.

Subjectively speaking I have different views, however.

Happiness is the most valuable quality for an individual. The quality and value of a life correlates directly with the experienced happiness.
It took me a very long time to figure out what makes me happy. I have been chronically depressed most of my life.
My key to happiness basically boils down to accepting responsibility for myself and denying others the right to impose authority upon me against my will.
I take the right to question and deny any sort of authority.

My reasoning is that all systems humans have created so far are not efficient enough to make all individuals as happy as possible. If a system as it is fails to make me happy I will find an alternative way. Life is too valuable to waste it with things that are not worthwhile.

I can expand more on that on demand. I wrote a ridiculously long philosophical paper about that in German.
If you need a keyword to search for my stance, look for individual anarchism and nihilism.
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Old Jan 29, 2015   #13
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No. There's no reason besides making yourself happy.
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Old Jan 29, 2015   #14
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Originally Posted by Perl View Post
Being realistic here:

The real purpose of human existence is to reproduce, produce, consume and die when all this has been done successfully. Perpetuating our species as far as possible.

The rest is invented, making every possible life purpose a very individual thing and difficult to understand in a concrete way.

Now not being realistic and completely forgetting the fact that life purposes are completely individual things and depend on cultural, social or religious factors to be defined:

What is the purpose of this life?

"You enjoy it, enjoy it as much as possible!" cry in chorus members of the "club of hedonists", consisting not only of convicted materialists (founders), but also the increasingly fervent supporters - and numerous - the increasingly ecumenical - and thriving - theology of prosperity.

"What a simplistic and unfounded thinking!" bounce the outraged representatives of scientific communities, which form the most intransigent group. "The mission of the human species is solely leverage progress, develop reasoning and uncover all the secrets of the universe!"

"Poor blind! Why? You are on earth to disentangle your souls!" recite in unison, like a mantra, the spokesmen of the many mystical and occult trends and leaders of not less numerous doctrines that requires blind faith. The members of this vast group, that of all, is the one that best embodies the vanity and presumption, differ from each other group only in the method to obtain enlightenment. While one part wants to find this by "uncovering the hidden", the other gets it just sticking to the guidelines imposed by a particular religion.

Except for a few differences, these three basic groups accommodate the beliefs of most of humanity in relation to this crucial question of the meaning of life.

Let's leave aside for now the shallowness of the first group and the fantasy of the third. Let's check out what the second group members have to say.

Scientists... Once again it's for them to turn the eyes of a significant portion of the population that still moves inside in search of a clear answer and that, nevertheless, is not manipulated by superstitions nor handcuffed "dogmas ".

"Progress! Progress at all costs!" In this axiom comes down to severe exhortation of life that drives us science.

This response could even be considered the right one, if it were possible to understand the real progress of humanity and not just the increase of material living conditions. If, with the same ardor used in the development of technology was also sought the improvement of the spirit. If people finally looked at themselves as spiritual beings and not as programmed machines just to run bodily and mental functions. But not everyone is like that (me, by the way).

Because: What worth spending a lifetime exclusively on accumulation and exploitation of the conveniences of modern life - credits to the science achievements - neither of which can free the human creature of anguish and feeling of emptiness that assail you? Muffled screams of his cloistered spirit? All cyber wonders, the "great space achievements", the latest "technical miracles", the latest generation of antidepressants, none of this gives the present-day human being even the shadow of a glimpse of happiness.

These things are not useless, but are not sufficient for the development of a spiritual being. Can not suffice. At best they provide a little pleasure more intense than a sneeze, far from the true joy and happiness infinitely distant.

Happiness, in fact, is now one word more and more difficult to define. How to talk about something that no longer exists? With his unhealthy penchant for merely earthly, with its intellective blinders, with its tragic illusion of power and self-sufficiency, the whole humanity gave up his happiness. Worse, fought tirelessly for her to be radically extinct!

And there are those who insist stubbornly in rediscover it in scientific products...

Relying on the idolized science, the pursuit of happiness that everyone has the right, as recommended by the UN in its Universal Declaration of Human Rights, will remain just that:

An eternal and hopeless search. Or as the members of the "scientific group" would say, a perpetual motion.
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Last edited by Perl; Jan 29, 2015 at 06:52 PM..
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Old Jan 29, 2015   #15
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I feel like taking purpose to mean general aims or as a thing changed by perseption is a bit problematic if we want any sort of discussion. Nevertheless your point is respectable, not sure it really needed the little short story though.
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Old Jan 29, 2015   #16
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Perhaps it's an inherent property of matter, that when certain conditions are present, life happens. There are no whys, just as there's no observable reason to any laws of nature. Why does gravity attract? Why does energy condense into matter? You can't answer those, just like you can't answer the big question itself. It just is.

If you want purpose, make one for yourself.

To be honest, I'm secretly hoping for some room floating in outer space which contains all of life's answers. Or a user manual, at the very least.
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Old Jan 29, 2015   #17
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I would like to try simplify this. Making the rol of someone who wants to find a reason to all.

First think of a purpose, it can be whatever you think it is, doesn't matter what can be. Lets say that it's to protect the Earth, reproduce ourselves and live a fulfilled life of happiness (remember it's supposing). Ok so, imagine that we achieved that. But then, why we need to protect the Earth, reproduce ourselves and live a fulfilled life of happiness? Maybe there's another purpose for that, so ok, let's find out. Now lets suppose we have found the reason of that. Lets say, that it's to grow spiritually through all the lives we are going living (like the reincarnation and the thought of the ultimate soul learning.) But again, why we need to grow spiritually and live different lives? And then the chain will keep going till practically the eternity, because when we try to find the reason, can't stop in ONE simple explanation/reason/purpose to the existence of all without being illogical.

Finding out a purpose through our knowledge, analysis and our processes of thoughts they will always be an illusion, because we can't know the truth through all this.

Look, listen, smell, feel your around, because it is the only reality in which you might find the answers without being disturbed by the thought.
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Old Jan 29, 2015   #18
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Seems like everyone here agrees more of less with everyone else that there is no real purpose beyond what we subjectively define as one. From what I have seen of posts so far we are unlikely to get any sort of two sided discussion anytime soon. Because if this, if someone hasn't offered an alternative point of view to utilitarian or nihilism I will ask that this thread is moved to the off topic section. If that does not happen (and I can totally see why staff might be hesitant to move such a heavy question to off topic) then I will just close this thread. People seem to like keeping personal moral beliefs personal and this is understandable. For all of those who actually did post here; thanks.
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Old Jan 30, 2015   #19
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i think we were put on this Planet to destroy it and totally destroy eachother and the enviroment
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Old Jan 30, 2015   #20
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Life is a precious thing, every choice you make affects your future in one way or another. Life gives you the test then the lesson, it is how we learn from mistakes. I do believe in God and a heaven and hell, you all don't want to hear that, so I wont talk about it.

Originally Posted by random website
What is existence? We stipulate that an object or event exists, if it manifests itself in an observable manner. Objects that are claimed to exist but that do not manifest themselves in any way, form or shape, do not exist, by axiomatic definition. Anything that human beings claim to exist must show objective evidence to human beings that it exists; otherwise, it would be meaningless to say that it exists. Some Thing may conceivably exist in another space-time continuum or in an alternate universe but, if it does not manifest itself in any form or shape to human beings, it does not exist for purposes of human beings: If it has no effect on human life, we can and we must disregard it.

For atheists that is what they think (Writer is atheist), the thought of not knowing what to live for haunts everyone (me too), think about playing with action figures, you get them all these accessories and after a while, you lose them, not care about them, or throw them away. That's life, you have materials that can be throw away, lost, forgotten easily, just like your own life. Certain people who made a change for this world won't be forgotten, link.
To have a purpose to live, is to make one of your own.


I will add more onto this later, I gtg.
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