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Old Dec 23, 2016   #1
GoodBox
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Affirmative Action from a Global Perspective.
I'd like to know ya'lls thoughts on affirmative action. In particular, as an American. I'd like to know from an individual's perspective what sorts of affirmative action goes on around other parts of the world. And how you believe your country views affirmative action.

That being said, I would encourage everyone to ignore the rule about posting without reading for this thread. If you have a unique perspective to share, then please go ahead and share it. Even if your perspective has already been mentioned, it brings impact that two random and separate individuals share the same views about affirmative action in their country.

In fact, even if you are American as I am, I would encourage you to share your perspective on this topic. I can't speak for everyone, but I myself live in a small bubble of my own country and could learn from what other Americans think about affirmative action.

That being said, I'll start the discussion off with a list of Pros and Cons I've heard argued for affirmative action.

~ At this point, Goodbox recommends using AA as shorthand for affirmative action ~

Pros
- Helps those in lower social status get out of their lower social status.
- Helps provide diversity in fields lacking it.

Cons

- Those who acquired a position via AA are typically under-qualified, and thus have a high chance of turnover. Turnover results in the status quo being maintained.
- Candidates with more merit and skill will lose their positions to those with less merit and skill in an AA system.
- Many institutions perform AA solely off of gender and ethnicity. This means that those in a lower social status but common gender and ethnicity for their field will not benefit from AA.

The Cons list is longer and has more bullet points than the Pros list. However the benefits on the Pros list carry a lot of weight. In fact if I had to weight the two, I would say the benefits of AA more or less balance out the disadvantages of AA.

I have a personal story about American AA and a hearsay story about Malaysian AA. But I'll save those for later once the thread gets going. What are your thoughts on AA, and what stories do you have to share relating to AA in your county?
(>^_^)>

Last edited by GoodBox; Dec 23, 2016 at 06:06 PM..
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Old Dec 26, 2016   #2
kendrikLMR
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In Australia you get advantages if you're a Torres strait islander or aboriginal. Why can't I have advantages because I'm white? I couldn't control what my race was when I was born. In the modern day where discrimination is illegal, AA is just legal discrimination against people of a certain race. Essentially, legal racism. The Jews are behind this, they will do anything to bring whites down.
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Old Dec 27, 2016   #3
Hyde
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Look up M/WBE regulations for businesses in the state of NY. Cry. Literally institutional racism.

Oh you aren't a woman or a minority? Can't bid on this juicy contract then.
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Old Dec 28, 2016   #4
Pouffy
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Originally Posted by kendrikLMR View Post
yada yada victim of racism yada yada blatant antisemitism yada

What was wrong with your Surfings account Aug?

isnt that equalized by the fact that many minorities are naturally disadvantaged because of the race they happened to be born as...... its kinda ignorant to whine about opportunities you arent afforded when these are advantages given to people who potentially face those situations constantly...........

Hyde, are there any advantages to wmbe certification other than perhaps a greater chance to register a firm? I found another program that was supposed to help wmbe businesses get "equal opportunity" for contracts, but Im not sure how that turns out in practice. Not a New Yorker, so I don't know.

Ill edit this with my more general stance later
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Old Dec 28, 2016   #5
GoodBox
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Originally Posted by Pouffy View Post
Originally Posted by kendrikLMR View Post
yada yada victim of racism yada yada blatant antisemitism yada


Indeed.

I want to say though. A story I heard from my parents was that in Malay, Malaysians apparently enjoy a large amount of AA. In particular, that Chinese doctors will explicit put up plaques or something of the sort to state that they are a Chinese doctor. Because supposedly becoming a doctor in Malaysia while being Chinese is very hard due to all the AA.

Also I've personally had someone tell me before that "your qualifications would be great if you were a girl or not Asian." A math research position. It was an interesting moment as I was agreeing with her as I understood that AA was the standard of practice in the field. But at the same time being told that in person is a bit off-setting. I didn't care much in the end though as I had a much more qualified friend I knew was applying (Still applied since that's how things go).

Still one problem with race-based AA is that it's too broad imo. A person can grow up in a lower social status and be white, asian, or so on. Likewise giving AA to those in a higher social status but minority race is a bit against the point.

I'll look into the M/WBE regulations before my next post.
(>^_^)>
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Old Dec 28, 2016   #6
Hyde
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Originally Posted by Pouffy View Post
What was wrong with your Surfings account Aug?

isnt that equalized by the fact that many minorities are naturally disadvantaged because of the race they happened to be born as...... its kinda ignorant to whine about opportunities you arent afforded when these are advantages given to people who potentially face those situations constantly...........

Hyde, are there any advantages to wmbe certification other than perhaps a greater chance to register a firm? I found another program that was supposed to help wmbe businesses get "equal opportunity" for contracts, but Im not sure how that turns out in practice. Not a New Yorker, so I don't know.

Ill edit this with my more general stance later

By equal opportunity, they mean removing opportunity from white male owned businesses registered in NY. Due to these regulations, many such businesses find themselves refused outright due to the identity of the owner when applying for research grants or bidding for contracts. Quite literally the definition of institutional racism
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Old Dec 28, 2016   #7
kendrikLMR
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Originally Posted by Hyde View Post
By equal opportunity, they mean removing opportunity from white male owned businesses registered in NY. Due to these regulations, many such businesses find themselves refused outright due to the identity of the owner when applying for research grants or bidding for contracts. Quite literally the definition of institutional racism

Also with university entry and racial workplace quotas, there are a limited amount of spots that are reserved for people of a certain race because they're (((disadvantaged))). If they really wanted equal opportunity they would reserve spots for those who are poor or actually disadvantaged (with physical/mental disabilities). They wouldn't do this though, because it would harm the profits of owners of companies (jews) as these workers are less efficient (This is more for workplace, universities in Australia have these in place, which make racial benefits redundant. But for some reason they're still in place). This is proof they don't want equal opportunity, and it's proof they're trying to bring whites down. Same with the botched holocaust statistics, but that's a debate for another time.

@Pouffy my account was banned permanently because I said n***a in wibbles

Last edited by kendrikLMR; Dec 29, 2016 at 05:58 AM..
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Old Dec 29, 2016   #8
Bodhisattva
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I'm against blindly applying affirmative action based on minority group rather than accounting for socioeconomics.

Two students attend a college prep high school,

One, a white male, son of two poverished divorced parents living separately. Only able to attend the private school on full scholarship. No ability to afford tutors, SAT/ACT prep books, summer courses, or workshops. Can't afford to be given a used car when he's of age to drive. Works as a dish washer to help out with the price of living.

The other, an Indian American female, daughter of a rich oil tycoon. Has every advantage possible, she's not wearing Goodwill used clothes, she's wearing custom anagramed attire. By the age of 15, she's driving one of her 3 cars, a custom BMW, with her body guard in the passenger seat. Family can afford to donate an entire library if they wanted to get her into a school.

Based off AA, the first student is a "double majority", both white and a male, so he is considered "privileged". The second student, a "double minority", both female and Indian, she's eligible to receive the benefits of applying as an "oppressed" individual.

Her socioeconomic class granted her every possible advantage coming into applying for college, and afterwards work. His life as a son of two poor seperated parents without much money was a struggle. He's the one who had to overcome adversity, not her. I shudder to think that if they both had similar standardized test scores and GPAs, she'd get in because of AA.

That's a problem.
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Old Dec 30, 2016   #9
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That white boy would've had every advantage if his parents didn't squander it. It's not the systems fault it was their fault. A LOT of white folk in America have only themselves to blame for not succeeding.

The Indian chick has the advantage because her parents didn't screw around and are most likely very hard working business people who jumped at ever chance they had to get ahead.
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Old Dec 30, 2016   #10
hawkesnightmare
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Originally Posted by T0ribush View Post
That white boy would've had every advantage if his parents didn't squander it. It's not the systems fault it was their fault. A LOT of white folk in America have only themselves to blame for not succeeding.

The Indian chick has the advantage because her parents didn't screw around and are most likely very hard working business people who jumped at ever chance they had to get ahead.

That is exactly the kind of thinking that allows these biased programs to exist. When you look at a poor person, it doesn't automatically mean that they or their parents were lazy. And not every hardworking person ends up with a fortune. Sometimes it doesn't work out that way. Someone gets passed over for a promotion, they get laid off, a spouse dies, they are falsely accused of a crime. Quit pretending like the system is perfect, and the only reason someone could be poor is because they didn't work hard enough. Shit happens. There are plenty of people living in the US who have three jobs and a family to take care of, and they will barely make rent this month. Yes, there are also plenty of people who are gaming the system and taking advantage of the government, but that's no reason to lump them together.
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