Toribash
If mental addiction ist a reasonable ground for prohibiton let's start with chocolate.
We are talking about LSD here, not cocaine which actually makes it Impossible to feel happy during the withdrawl. That is physical addiction, not mental addiction. Please do not confuse them.
Cocaine abuse drains your dopamine levels to a point where you need the drug in order to feel any sort of positivity. LSD does not.
If you abuse LSD it actually stops working. You build up tolerance and are forced to recover before you are able to trip again.

None of your points gives me the feeling that you actually understand the topic, nor do any of them strike me as convincing cause for prohibition as I can find many legal examples that would have to be illegal by the same logic.


Read my previous post, I explained it there. People will use black market to obtain psychedelics even if it gets legalised.

Please explain the relevance. Same goes for all items imaginable.
There is probably black market ice cream.
LSD is very very easy to obtain. Illegal or not. It is high in demand and someone will fill the gap. Why not slap taxes and licenses on it and get some quality control.
You cited alcohol as example for substance abuse caused by legalisation. Let me ask you: Have you ever heard of Al Calpone?
Last edited by Redundant; Jul 28, 2018 at 12:17 AM.
How are you?
I would HATE the Government to take lead on this LSD charge, They would make it so much less potent in my opinion and tax it and make it hella $$$$ since I am only paying like $20 a pop and then like $10 a pop if you buy say a 10pack.

Could see the big boys being like nah fam for 40 a pop etc etc.

It's good in doses every say idk 6months or so depends on your levels and shit <3

And remember kiddos when doing LSD/Acid always High Dose but do it less often granted WICKED time <3

You friendly neighborhood Tripper <3
-----
That plus here is Australia you can buy testing kits to see what ya getting etc etc purely legal just want to make sure you are getting what ya paid for etc etc. So if they go hand in hand with that I'd be interested to see what the Government says
Last edited by Jewww; Jul 28, 2018 at 11:09 AM. Reason: <24 hour edit/bump
Rythm smells like Cheese
#ENVYONTOP
20 bucks a trip, holy shit. Should be 5$ max, more like 3.
Ya being ripped off, friend.
How are you?
Prices here differ depending on where what etc etc, But tbh that not a bad price here is SA
Rythm smells like Cheese
#ENVYONTOP
Originally Posted by Redundant View Post
If mental addiction ist a reasonable ground for prohibiton let's start with chocolate.
We are talking about LSD here, not cocaine which actually makes it Impossible to feel happy during the withdrawl. That is physical addiction, not mental addiction. Please do not confuse them.
Cocaine abuse drains your dopamine levels to a point where you need the drug in order to feel any sort of positivity. LSD does not.
If you abuse LSD it actually stops working. You build up tolerance and are forced to recover before you are able to trip again.

None of your points gives me the feeling that you actually understand the topic, nor do any of them strike me as convincing cause for prohibition as I can find many legal examples that would have to be illegal by the same logic.

Your points are very biased. You can disagree with my opinion, but you can't deny the fact that in some instances LSD and other psychotropics lead people to accidental or intentional suicides or homicides, and that's just facts. Also let's not forget about unlikely yet possible long-term side effects such as anxiety, paranoia, panic attacks and so on.

Also don't ignore the fraction of people that increase the dosage when they build up tolerance instead of dropping it for a while. Don't use your personal experience to generalise whole group of users.

What makes you think that chocolate is even a valid comparison when these are well known and observed facts about psychotropics.

Originally Posted by Redundant View Post
Please explain the relevance. Same goes for all items imaginable.
There is probably black market ice cream.
LSD is very very easy to obtain. Illegal or not. It is high in demand and someone will fill the gap. Why not slap taxes and licenses on it and get some quality control.
You cited alcohol as example for substance abuse caused by legalisation. Let me ask you: Have you ever heard of Al Calpone?

I was replying to nikosefs after he claimed that legalisation would magically remove the drug from the black market. Don't twist the conversation.
Last edited by Smaguris; Jul 28, 2018 at 06:35 PM.
geez,i never claimed it would magically fix everything
including world hunger,but i did point to you how countries
that have legalized drugs have dropped rates of use,including
Portugal,Czech republic and others.At least do some research dude.

As for you,you haven't pointed anything,you have cited nothing
for us to check your "facts",and then you say to others to stop using
their own personal experience,what have you done in this thread
besides stating your personal experience?

edit:
here's some sources,any country that has legalized drug use,sees
less drug related crimes,less drug related deaths and overall a drop
in numbers of users:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-10301780.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal
https://news.vice.com/article/ungass...weed-to-heroin
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...cy-use-problem
https://www.forbes.com/sites/janetwb.../#2d60618c59eb
Last edited by nikosefs; Jul 28, 2018 at 07:19 PM.
If you read my post carefully you will notice that I admit that there are dangers to LSD. Of course I am biased as I am argueing pro LSD. You are biased because you argue con LSD. Why do you even bring that up?

There are possible long term side effects. They are not the ones you mentioned, but there is a danger of course.
That is why I proposed an age restriction. Please don't say I am not aware of dangers when I voluntarily mention them in my very first post in this thread.
All drugs, legal or not, have potential harmful side effects.
There exist horror stories but I never actually met anyone who got permanently damaged, so I take those stories with a grain of salt.

As for raising dosages to counter tolerance: Nope. Doesn't work. Ask anyone who has been raving hard non stop on acid for 5 days straight. You simply stop trippin' until you recovered.
LSD does not cause addiction. I brought chocolate up as example because you claimed that mental addiction ist a good reason for prohibition. Read that post carefully because I would rather not repeat myself.

Of course I will use both my experience and my knowledge in the subject. I have studied the drug, talked to many people who used it and consumed it on several occasions.
I know how it gets produced, its history and how it affects your body and mind. I know the potential dangers and side effects. I know it is widely available to the point where it might as well be legal because it makes no difference. Drop me in any city in the world and I will find acid within a night.
So please explain to me why I would not use my experience in an arbitrary online ramble? That makes no sense.

As for blackmarkets: nikosefs admits that they are a problem. So you basically agree on that. Talking about them being a problem is beating a dead horse.
People will always use them, even for legal things.

The angle he comes from is not the fact that people use black markets but the fact that they are the only means of acquiring acid right now.
Admittedly the quality of black market LSD is very good, but the production procedure of LSD is incredibly dangerous. I mean VERY dangerous. If you ever become interested in making some: I warned ya.
Leave it to the licensed professionals. Shit, there are none.
How are you?
Originally Posted by nikosefs View Post
geez,i never claimed it would magically fix everything
including world hunger,but i did point to you how countries
that have legalized drugs have dropped rates of use,including
Portugal,Czech republic and others.At least do some research dude.

As for you,you haven't pointed anything,you have cited nothing
for us to check your "facts",and then you say to others to stop using
their own personal experience,what have you done in this thread
besides stating your personal experience?

edit:
here's some sources,any country that has legalized drug use,sees
less drug related crimes,less drug related deaths and overall a drop
in numbers of users:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-10301780.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal
https://news.vice.com/article/ungass...weed-to-heroin
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...cy-use-problem
https://www.forbes.com/sites/janetwb.../#2d60618c59eb

I cited hardly anything because everything I state are pretty much well known facts that don't require sources, but you've provided some, so let's go over them. My first thought is that you hardly went over these articles yourself, because some of them are actually going against what you're saying.

First of all, and this is very important, those countries decriminalised drugs, not legalise them. Albeit it presents some interesting statistics, it's definitely far from being legalised, which is why it doesn't really work for you as an argument. The way it works is if you get caught with a stash of weed or cocaine you will get fine and treatment recommendation instead of criminal record, however, it's still very much illegal.

That's the point though, if you were arguing for decriminalisation of the drug I'd be standing next to you on this, but matter of a fact is those are two different things that aren't that much similar.

Also as one of your sources state "while levels of drug use in Portugal appear to be relatively low, reported levels of cannabis use in the Czech Republic are among the highest in Europe." suggesting it probably depends more on the culture on how they handle the change.

The article about states that legalised weed having lower crime rates seem to talk about crime rates related to drug trades rather than crime in general. Still, good argument on your part and I can't disregard it, but it doesn't show any significant numbers.

Originally Posted by Redundant View Post
If you read my post carefully you will notice that I admit that there are dangers to LSD. Of course I am biased as I am argueing pro LSD. You are biased because you argue con LSD. Why do you even bring that up?

There are possible long term side effects. They are not the ones you mentioned, but there is a danger of course.
That is why I proposed an age restriction. Please don't say I am not aware of dangers when I voluntarily mention them in my very first post in this thread.
All drugs, legal or not, have potential harmful side effects.
There exist horror stories but I never actually met anyone who got permanently damaged, so I take those stories with a grain of salt.

As for raising dosages to counter tolerance: Nope. Doesn't work. Ask anyone who has been raving hard non stop on acid for 5 days straight. You simply stop trippin' until you recovered.
LSD does not cause addiction. I brought chocolate up as example because you claimed that mental addiction ist a good reason for prohibition. Read that post carefully because I would rather not repeat myself.

Of course I will use both my experience and my knowledge in the subject. I have studied the drug, talked to many people who used it and consumed it on several occasions.
I know how it gets produced, its history and how it affects your body and mind. I know the potential dangers and side effects. I know it is widely available to the point where it might as well be legal because it makes no difference. Drop me in any city in the world and I will find acid within a night.
So please explain to me why I would not use my experience in an arbitrary online ramble? That makes no sense.

As for blackmarkets: nikosefs admits that they are a problem. So you basically agree on that. Talking about them being a problem is beating a dead horse.
People will always use them, even for legal things.

The angle he comes from is not the fact that people use black markets but the fact that they are the only means of acquiring acid right now.
Admittedly the quality of black market LSD is very good, but the production procedure of LSD is incredibly dangerous. I mean VERY dangerous. If you ever become interested in making some: I warned ya.
Leave it to the licensed professionals. Shit, there are none.

I'm not that biased though. I'm here to bring up the facts that you seem to ignore, I don't make pointless comparisons and my arguments don't rely on opinionated statements.

You have a lot of experience and that's great, but relying on it for your arguments is not very informative. As an example you mentioned that "those are not side effects of acid" but I found many many sources that state those exact points. I'll link you some over here.

Btw the argument about production being dangerous is an interesting one, but I'd have to say that people who produce it are probably doing it willingly due to nice paycheck (in most cases anyways).

https://drugabuse.com/library/effects-acid-lsd/
https://www.drugs.com/illicit/lsd.html
https://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfa...ks-of-lsd.html
Bias is just the lens you filter the world through Smaguris. Redundant is correct. You have a bias against the decriminalisation/legalisation of LSD. I have a bias against people who keep rats at pets.

Bias just refers to how you feel about a thing/concept/etc.

What you're trying to refer to is 'confirmation bias', a psychological tendency people have, which is related to the concept of bias.

Stay woke.
Hi hi, I'm going to chime in.

I'll kick off by saying I'm not against it, but I can provide life experience that isn't going to match what people tend to say or think for that matter.

I'm one of the few people that had a legitimate "problem" with LSD and it's many derivatives, and while I don't have a problem with the decriminalization of it, I do have experience.

6 years of solid use of it worth of experience - literally. Every day, from 13 - 19 I was off my tits via it. You can toss in the occasional other substance, but Acid (the primary method of selling LSD at the time) was my main go to. It's best to consider this as me tripping my balls off 9 - 5 lol.

Obviously, as someone in the UK that means it covered almost all my time in high school through college and beyond.

While people will say you can't get physically dependent on it (aka what people consider addiction), you can very easily become psychologically dependent - something that seems to be an unspoken bullshit thing now. Just as much as you can easily become psychologically dependent on the weirdest off things. Even fapping can cause a psychological hook akin to addiciton. (lolol)

And as someone who had to go through rehab to get clear, that should say a lot.

Of course, I'm not going to say it's physically an issue, so long as you're mentally sound enough to keep a lid on it, but it can cause problems, and I've while I never had any particularly negative experiences during that time, I've known many people who werern't that lucky.

Past tense applicable because they're long dead.

Lets just say that what you read, and what you personally experience isn't necessarily tied to the outcome, and with LSD and things based on it you really do need to have a good head on your shoulders for it to not go wrong.

RIP all too many people.

I will rel-literate though, despite never personally having a negative experience, although having issues getting "free" from it; I've also had a lot of negatives due to people that weren't able to cope with what it entails.

Add that sadly there's far too many people that'll get dosed and hop in a car or do something else dumb that ruins it for everyone else.

On the other hand, I honestly wouldn't have made it through my teens without something; and despite the whole 'if you're in a bad frame of mind don't take it' rule that tends to be attached I not only got through a frankly shit period of life, I pretty much thrived during.

Feel free to say I'm biased, but I honestly don't regret it even after the hell of meeting reality after.

/drunken old man rambling about his past

<Erf> SkulFuk: gf just made a toilet sniffing joke at me
<Erf> i think
<Erf> i think i hate you