Comparing apples to oranges. Wouldn't exactly be fair to compare them against each other because a) they fit into drastically different comps, b) they have entirely different build paths, and c) they generally fill different roles.
That being said, Graves generally fits into the meta easier, since he's not as comp dependent as Ziggs.
That being said, Graves generally fits into the meta easier, since he's not as comp dependent as Ziggs.
nyan :3
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Originally Posted by Oracle
That being said, Graves generally fits into the meta easier, since he's not as comp dependent as Ziggs.
I'd actually argue the opposite. Even tho ziggs is not a massive metapick it can be played literally with any team comp (middle).
Ziggs has such massive range that he can be played so safe it doesn't really matter what team you have around you.
Now if you have heavy ad toplane and ap supp it's going to be a bad idea to run graves in jungle. Granted I think graves is a more of a powerpick but definitely more reliant on the teamcomp.
Originally Posted by cowmeat
I'd actually argue the opposite. Even tho ziggs is not a massive metapick it can be played literally with any team comp (middle).
Ziggs has such massive range that he can be played so safe it doesn't really matter what team you have around you.
Now if you have heavy ad toplane and ap supp it's going to be a bad idea to run graves in jungle. Granted I think graves is a more of a powerpick but definitely more reliant on the teamcomp.
I find that Graves fits better in more comps because Ziggs is pretty much good for poke and siege comps, which require a lot more coordination from a team, and he doesn't provide much in terms of utility or consistent burst that would be needed in other comps. His map pressure is alright at 6, but it's still not that great, and you would accomplish roughly the same stuff that he provides but with greater versatility in TF. As such, he's a niche pick in almost all senses of the word.
Meanwhile, you stick Graves in virtually any comp and he a) doesn't give away the draft, since Graves can go top, jungle, or adc, and b) fits into most comps pretty well, poke comps being his least effective, but that comp is rarely run nowadays anyways.
And with the recent buff to % armor pen, heavy AD comps fair better in the late game than they normally did, so they're actually fairly effective right now.
nyan :3
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