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Old Sep 3, 2018 Original Post  
Natejas

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Everything I personally think should happen with Toribash
Would like to start this by saying I am in no means trying to tell hampa and any other investors within Nabi how to run their company, this is completely from an outsider looking in perspective and customer/user perspective.

Everything needs a revamp, everything about Nabi studios screams side hobby instead of 12+ year old game development company and I hate it. I truly believe Toribash has the potential to do very big things just because of how unique it is, I believe the issue comes from lack of execution and possibly care by this point. So basically I just want to suggest everything I can in one little place and try to structure it as neatly as possible.

So starting off, the actual www.toribash.com needs a revamp(mcfarbo literally just suggested this but I've thought about making this thread for a while and his post just kind of pushed me more to do it) and the way we split that page and the forums using "www." for that page and "forum." for the forums I believe would have an impact on SEO and how Toribash is found from non-marketing efforts(which as far as I know are nonexistent). Toribash should be present on all social media platforms and have calls to those pages on the landing page. An updated promo video as McFarbo suggested should have been a no-brainer at this point. a breakdown of what all is possible through Toribash, explaining art, dueling, selling TC, replay making, legend status, etc. (feel free to further this list in your post to act as a reference for if any of this actually ever gets done). Also making sure to use the landing page to rank on more popular searches. The entire page is just garbage and irrelevant at this point, literally, anything would be better.

Secondly is going to be social media and someone to manage the social media pages. Now let it be noted I don't know Nabi's revenue and how much they can allocate to expand employee wise but the whole point of a company is to make money and you need to spend money to make money, but the point of social media is to get new users without necessarily marketing efforts, so this is pretty damn important. Social media pages are so easy to grow naturally if they're kept up with but as of now there's less than the bare minimum being given to them and it's a flaw on Nabi's part. With the release of TBN expected to be soon, I would hope pulling in new customers/users would be the ideal outcome of this and without being present on social media it makes marketing even harder which again screams side hobby instead of an aged company. Keeping up to date on events currently live within Toribash, giveaways to act as a call of action to not only keep the page alive and relevant but to further grow the pages through shares/retweets/repost/etc. You seriously just cannot go wrong with social media so it's stupid how little is being done with it at this point, any company is going to benefit from it and if given the correct care it can do an actual shit-ton for the company.

Next, I'd love to see more marketing efforts. TBN is supposedly going to drop soon and the only people it's going to attract are those currently active which in theory completely contradicts the point of allocating any kind of budget to developing a new game and if that budget is also nonexistent then I really worry for the future of Toribash and Nabi as a whole. Don't really want to get to in depth with this suggestion as I'd hope someone who's apart of Nabi would have a pretty solid marketing background but it would not surprise me if there wasn't so if someone important responds then I can come up with a marketing plan I believe would do very good things for Nabi if given a theoretical budget for its execution.

We also need to create a much better tutorial, again a no-brainer the only thing I ever hear on this suggestion is how difficult this supposedly is but the tutorial and introduction to the game is the biggest contribution to the turnover rate this game has. When a person joins they are given the most basic explanation ever, a vague idea of how the game works and sent on their way. I believe even if a player is flooded with more than necessary information they'd be more inclined to stay, compared to "contract this, extend this, hit space yay now go play the game" again going back to the website idea you need a much more in-depth explanation to get the players attention and have it all present so what isn't retained can be looked at again. I'm sure devs are aware of this issue it just comes back to the lack of execution.

Next would be, Nabi needs to be more worried about making an income. There are many ways for this to be done but for the most part, the only thing I can imagine is a new user joins, buys stuff because they don't know about the user market, and that's it. If they stick around long enough they'll learn that holy shit buying anything for USD other than QI is the dumbest shit ever why the hell did I do that and now you have a user and not a customer and from a company standpoint that's fucking horrible. This also leads to users selling TC, I don't really know what to do with this because it hurts the company but it's a big reason a lot of users stay. Only thing I could think of makes it possible to have users deposit a balance and when they purchase TC from another user, a tax/fee is taken for the transaction so it's some kind of income for Nabi. Also having some kind of interface for users to sell and buy TC through each other should make it possible to collect an average rate for USD to TC and use that average for Nabi to sell TC at a competitive rate so users can benefit if they sell below average for a while but Nabi can attract purchases by offering bundle deals or something along those lines, don't really know for sure what to do with this issue.

This is all I care to write about at this moment but if this attracts responses then I'll continue. If you can please leave a response and feel free to further these suggestions or create your own along the lines of bettering Nabi for the company's sake. Thank you!

tl;dr - revamp the site, social media, marketing efforts, better tutorial, better ways for Nabi to make money.
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Old Sep 4, 2018   #11
snake
 
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welp you've seen IK controls thread, and imo thats the most important thing that should be implemented for tb to be relevant, along with graphics update,
even if it will mean raising the hardware reqirements bar,
instead of relying on player-base of children on ancient "older brother's laptop" hardware from the 3rd world countries, which seems to be a priority
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Old Sep 4, 2018   #12
Karbn
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I swear IK controls is all you talk about now.

As for why having nabi make more money is a topic of discussion, if nabi and devs have the incentive of being able to achieve greater profits, it could mean this game would transfer from the "side hobby" to a full time job. Along with a bigger income, nabi can hire paid devs to implement some new features. I think for the moment toribash next supercedes toribash, and nabi realizes that.

But more money for nabi means more freedom to code and create new ideas for this game.

Nate, you mentioned an upgraded tutorial system, what do you have in mind? Back when I worked as help squad, we were trying to create a revamped tutorial, but fell flat because we couldn't get the script going, and we all eventually stopped working on it. If you've got any ideas on what could be used in the dialogue and what and how certain topics should be talked about, I think staff might be interested to hear ( I can't speak for them though, I'm not staff)

As for forum revamp, wouldn't it make more sense to combine the two? The sites are two separate entities, you could combine the official site with the forums, making everything easier to access.

When I first started, I actually stumbled upon the forums by accident. I thought the official site was it. I know there are texts in-game that direct you to the forums, but for people searching for it online it might be helpful to only have one site to visit for everything.


Also this is more of a joke suggestion but since it's so popular right now, uh

lootcrates and keys.
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Old Sep 4, 2018   #13
$McFarbo
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Originally Posted by Karbn View Post
lootcrates and keys.

there's really nothing people could want that they can't already afford with 300k tc or less, staff make close to no effort to release items for higher tier players such as myself, everything released is 1000 stock, 5k tc, there's very few items worth more than 500k and they are pretty ugly at that.

basically lootcrates would be useless unless they gave people items they couldn't normally get with all this inflated tc lying around, and no qi items get boring really quick .
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Old Sep 4, 2018   #14
Natejas

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Originally Posted by snake View Post
welp you've seen IK controls thread, and imo thats the most important thing that should be implemented for tb to be relevant, along with graphics update,
even if it will mean raising the hardware reqirements bar,
instead of relying on player-base of children on ancient "older brother's laptop" hardware from the 3rd world countries, which seems to be a priority

The only real way I would like to see IK controls introduced would be through the modmakers discretion and/or an option to use these, but I do agree that newer ways of functionality would do a lot for Toribash.
Originally Posted by Karbn View Post
I swear IK controls is all you talk about now.

As for why having nabi make more money is a topic of discussion, if nabi and devs have the incentive of being able to achieve greater profits, it could mean this game would transfer from the "side hobby" to a full time job. Along with a bigger income, nabi can hire paid devs to implement some new features. I think for the moment toribash next supercedes toribash, and nabi realizes that.

But more money for nabi means more freedom to code and create new ideas for this game.

I want to have high hopes for TBN but I just think they're just throwing make up on a corpse, the make up being 3v1,2v2,1v1v1v1, and the corpse being normal old Toribash that has been the same thing for 12 years but in Unity. I'm really just worried about the future of Toribash and Nabi.

Originally Posted by Karbn View Post
Nate, you mentioned an upgraded tutorial system, what do you have in mind? Back when I worked as help squad, we were trying to create a revamped tutorial, but fell flat because we couldn't get the script going, and we all eventually stopped working on it. If you've got any ideas on what could be used in the dialogue and what and how certain topics should be talked about, I think staff might be interested to hear ( I can't speak for them though, I'm not staff)

I'll have to work on a more detailed version of this throughout the week as I'm really busy right now(just got moved to 10 hour shifts) but this is very much so something I believe could completely flip the script on Toribash's longer term success.
Originally Posted by Karbn View Post
As for forum revamp, wouldn't it make more sense to combine the two? The sites are two separate entities, you could combine the official site with the forums, making everything easier to access.

I agree they should be combined I also believe it'll help the SEO of Toribash a lot too for ranking with popular searches due to the longevity of the site as well as how large it is post-wise.

Originally Posted by Karbn View Post
When I first started, I actually stumbled upon the forums by accident. I thought the official site was it. I know there are texts in-game that direct you to the forums, but for people searching for it online it might be helpful to only have one site to visit for everything.

I was the same way, I would be in-game always hearing people talk about the forum but when I first joined I was very young(I was 11 I believe) and wasn't really all that familiar with forums and becuase I only knew of www.toribash.com I didn't really realize there was a lot more beyond that.

Originally Posted by Karbn View Post
Also this is more of a joke suggestion but since it's so popular right now, uh

lootcrates and keys.

Originally Posted by McFarbo View Post
there's really nothing people could want that they can't already afford with 300k tc or less, staff make close to no effort to release items for higher tier players such as myself, everything released is 1000 stock, 5k tc, there's very few items worth more than 500k and they are pretty ugly at that.

basically lootcrates would be useless unless they gave people items they couldn't normally get with all this inflated tc lying around, and no qi items get boring really quick .

Idk I feel like there could be certain things done that could make for great lotteries and if done could be content for earlier mentioned social media pages, I've always supported the idea of bringing back lotteries and I honestly don't believe this is a bad idea.
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Old Sep 5, 2018   #15
FistofLife
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Toribash should not be marketed, put on social media or promoted yet.

The dev team needs to decide what Toribash actually is. Right now it has its finger in every pie and does them all badly. Replays, Art, Casual play, "fun" events, marketing and competitive is some of what Toribash offers.

I believe the only choice here is competitive given the massive skill cap of the game. The matchmaking system needs to be supported fully for it to work. The game needs an annual world championship, which players would qualify through earning points (oh just like every other game). Points would be earned through getting a low rank each season. But alternative methods also need to be on offer so the boring grind isn't always the way for experienced players. Players could also qualify by winning structured competitive events hosted by ES on the forum (Bracket events for most competitive mods). I can go into more detail but let's be real everyone but the devs get the point.

Now for the only part short-sighted Hampa cares about. The $$$.
If Toribash was made into a competitive game then the players market could be shut down (possibly brought back in future). This would give Hampa the monopoly on all item and TC sales ($$$).

This leaves a problem that there would be no incentive for top-tier players to play as there is no way to make income. Solution - The qualifying and world championships would offer cash prizes now funded through Hampas monopoly on the market.

Only after this is under development should Natejas ideas be implemented

tldr; same shit i've said for 5 years
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Old Sep 5, 2018   #16
Natejas

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Originally Posted by FistofLife View Post
Toribash should not be marketed, put on social media or promoted yet.

The dev team needs to decide what Toribash actually is. Right now it has its finger in every pie and does them all badly. Replays, Art, Casual play, "fun" events, marketing and competitive is some of what Toribash offers.

I believe the only choice here is competitive given the massive skill cap of the game. The matchmaking system needs to be supported fully for it to work. The game needs an annual world championship, which players would qualify through earning points (oh just like every other game). Points would be earned through getting a low rank each season. But alternative methods also need to be on offer so the boring grind isn't always the way for experienced players. Players could also qualify by winning structured competitive events hosted by ES on the forum (Bracket events for most competitive mods). I can go into more detail but let's be real everyone but the devs get the point.

Now for the only part short-sighted Hampa cares about. The $$$.
If Toribash was made into a competitive game then the players market could be shut down (possibly brought back in future). This would give Hampa the monopoly on all item and TC sales ($$$).

This leaves a problem that there would be no incentive for top-tier players to play as there is no way to make income. Solution - The qualifying and world championships would offer cash prizes now funded through Hampas monopoly on the market.

Only after this is under development should Natejas ideas be implemented

tldr; same shit i've said for 5 years

Completely agree with everything you're saying and when I get the chance I'll try to summarize this in my OP. Basically, I want to see an actual improvement with TBN and for it to not just be Toribash but in Unity. Thanks for your input, I want Toribash Next to be an actually well rounded, well-developed game and not something that could pass as 12+ year old learning experience that hasn't really seen the light of day that it could.
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Old Sep 5, 2018   #17
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Originally Posted by FistofLife View Post
Toribash should not be marketed, put on social media or promoted yet.

The dev team needs to decide what Toribash actually is. Right now it has its finger in every pie and does them all badly. Replays, Art, Casual play, "fun" events, marketing and competitive is some of what Toribash offers.

I believe the only choice here is competitive given the massive skill cap of the game. The matchmaking system needs to be supported fully for it to work. The game needs an annual world championship, which players would qualify through earning points (oh just like every other game). Points would be earned through getting a low rank each season. But alternative methods also need to be on offer so the boring grind isn't always the way for experienced players. Players could also qualify by winning structured competitive events hosted by ES on the forum (Bracket events for most competitive mods). I can go into more detail but let's be real everyone but the devs get the point.

Now for the only part short-sighted Hampa cares about. The $$$.
If Toribash was made into a competitive game then the players market could be shut down (possibly brought back in future). This would give Hampa the monopoly on all item and TC sales ($$$).

This leaves a problem that there would be no incentive for top-tier players to play as there is no way to make income. Solution - The qualifying and world championships would offer cash prizes now funded through Hampas monopoly on the market.

Only after this is under development should Natejas ideas be implemented

tldr; same shit i've said for 5 years


competitive incentives and such are all great and amazing, but are unnecessary if nobody will play the game due to control scheme that aged so bad that it's easier to do stuff in 3d animation applications than in a game (tb)
people trying and dropping tb instantly due to horrid controls is a much greater issue than competitive gameplay incentives
imo toribash needs to be stripped from as much unnecessary complexity as possible, including remapping and simplifying body textures and/or changing the toribody entirely, giving the game a nice "face lift"


EDIT: tons of people on my steam friends list tried toribash and all of them dropped it BEFORE they even got to blue belt, why we are even talking about competitive aspecs of the game.....


here goes the distribution of "high level competitive" players of tb that would benefit from world championships

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Last edited by snake; Sep 5, 2018 at 03:34 PM..
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Old Sep 5, 2018   #18
Ronan
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Unless the controls for maneuverering the tori are completely overhauled in the next version of the game - it will not succeed.

It is extremely difficult for the player to manipulate the tori to their will and create the moves and tricks they want to achieve - which will end up with them giving up the game.

This issue needs to be addressed first, there's no point focusing on lootcrates, website fixes, world championships and martketing and so on if the core game itself is bad and no new players want to play it due to that fact.

That's the way I see it.
-----
As snake pointed out -

32.1% of people who play this game play less than 20 games, that's a third of new players that install this game that uninstall it before even reaching yellow belt.

Only 7% of people make it past 100 games played.

If that doesn't prove there's something fundamentally wrong with the game itself I wouldn't know what to tell you.

Last edited by Ronan; Sep 5, 2018 at 03:57 PM.. Reason: <24 hour edit/bump
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Old Sep 5, 2018   #19
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hey look we can all appreciate each others ideas on their own threads. Please rather than saying my idea or X's idea is better / more valid / more important RIGHT THIS SECOND discuss the OP stuff.

If you wanna link to other threads then go nuts but don't just derail this thread for that purpose cause if that's the case you might as well merge threads and make it an even bigger discussion where all the ideas are stacked up next to eachother that way.

TLDR:
Originally Posted by snake View Post
err why are you concerned for nabi making money instead of being concerned about them making a great game?

this post isn't good

Originally Posted by FistofLife View Post
Toribash should not be marketed, put on social media or promoted yet.

The dev team needs to decide what Toribash actually is. Right now it has its finger in every pie and does them all badly. Replays, Art, Casual play, "fun" events, marketing and competitive is some of what Toribash offers.

I believe the only choice here is competitive given the massive skill cap of the game. The matchmaking system needs to be supported fully for it to work. The game needs an annual world championship, which players would qualify through earning points (oh just like every other game). Points would be earned through getting a low rank each season. But alternative methods also need to be on offer so the boring grind isn't always the way for experienced players. Players could also qualify by winning structured competitive events hosted by ES on the forum (Bracket events for most competitive mods). I can go into more detail but let's be real everyone but the devs get the point.

Now for the only part short-sighted Hampa cares about. The $$$.
If Toribash was made into a competitive game then the players market could be shut down (possibly brought back in future). This would give Hampa the monopoly on all item and TC sales ($$$).

This leaves a problem that there would be no incentive for top-tier players to play as there is no way to make income. Solution - The qualifying and world championships would offer cash prizes now funded through Hampas monopoly on the market.

Only after this is under development should Natejas ideas be implemented

tldr; same shit i've said for 5 years

This post is fine although probably didn't need most of the waffle between points

Originally Posted by Karbn View Post
As for why having nabi make more money is a topic of discussion, if nabi and devs have the incentive of being able to achieve greater profits, it could mean this game would transfer from the "side hobby" to a full time job. Along with a bigger income, nabi can hire paid devs to implement some new features. I think for the moment toribash next supercedes toribash, and nabi realizes that.

But more money for nabi means more freedom to code and create new ideas for this game.

Nate, you mentioned an upgraded tutorial system, what do you have in mind? Back when I worked as help squad, we were trying to create a revamped tutorial, but fell flat because we couldn't get the script going, and we all eventually stopped working on it. If you've got any ideas on what could be used in the dialogue and what and how certain topics should be talked about, I think staff might be interested to hear ( I can't speak for them though, I'm not staff)

As for forum revamp, wouldn't it make more sense to combine the two? The sites are two separate entities, you could combine the official site with the forums, making everything easier to access.

When I first started, I actually stumbled upon the forums by accident. I thought the official site was it. I know there are texts in-game that direct you to the forums, but for people searching for it online it might be helpful to only have one site to visit for everything.

This post is better. although once again, has a bit of waffle and doesn't quite fully respond to OP

ok continue.

@below: because i'd rather not stick a reminder about post quality and my own thoughts in the same post, and i figured that the posts weren't bad enough for me to just delete and warn/infract which could also kill the discussion,
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Old Sep 5, 2018   #20
Ronan
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Originally Posted by Icky View Post
hey look we can all appreciate each others ideas on their own threads. Please rather than saying my idea or X's idea is better / more valid / more important RIGHT THIS SECOND discuss the OP stuff.

If you wanna link to other threads then go nuts but don't just derail this thread for that purpose cause if that's the case you might as well merge threads and make it an even bigger discussion where all the ideas are stacked up next to eachother that way.

TLDR:


this post isn't good



This post is fine although probably didn't need most of the waffle between points



This post is better. although once again, has a bit of waffle and doesn't quite fully respond to OP

ok continue.

Why not give your own opinions on the matter rather than telling people if their posts are good or bad? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the matter.
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