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Thinking you're black so covering yourself in black paint is not really any way near as bad as literally starving yourself till hospitalisation because you think you're fat. The treatment Redundant described was to remove the dissimilarity between body image (I think?) and body to prevent the anxiety it causes. The problem really needing treatment is the anxiety, it is just that removing the source (gender-dysphasia in this case) is the most effective, long term solution to this anxiety. In the case of anorexia the problem, and the reason that treatment is needed is that the body does not get enough nutrients to sustain itself. This is often the result of other stuff like social anxiety I think, so treating that is the best way to prevent further harm rather than just allowing it to continue.

Sorry that this post is written a bit shabbily, using a phone.
Good morning sweet princess
Originally Posted by Zelda View Post
Is the growing support for transgender individuals the result of society advancing towards wider empathy or is it just people bandwagoning so as not to be seen as ignorant?

It's both, the way I see it. There are people who genuinely support these people for making such a huge decision. Others are just like meh.

Me personally, I don't really care what other people do to their bodies. The reason I support them is basically because a lot of the people who oppose them do so for dumb reasons. I always say that one of the biggest problems in society is the fact that whenever people see something that's different or out of the ordinary, it's automatically negative. They don't think it through. It's like "strange = bad" has been ingrained into their minds.

But there are people who put a lot of thought into this transgender concept and still think it's a bad idea. That's their opinion. Completely fine. What's not fine is bashing these people out of pure hatred for what they decided to do with their own bodies.
a spoon.
Originally Posted by Zelda View Post
Thinking you're black so covering yourself in black paint is not really any way near as bad as literally starving yourself till hospitalisation because you think you're fat. The treatment Redundant described was to remove the dissimilarity between body image (I think?) and body to prevent the anxiety it causes. The problem really needing treatment is the anxiety, it is just that removing the source (gender-dysphasia in this case) is the most effective, long term solution to this anxiety. In the case of anorexia the problem, and the reason that treatment is needed is that the body does not get enough nutrients to sustain itself. This is often the result of other stuff like social anxiety I think, so treating that is the best way to prevent further harm rather than just allowing it to continue.

Sorry that this post is written a bit shabbily, using a phone.

You're missing the obvious here. The entire concept of dysphoria revolves around self-hatred. It does not go away, no matter what you do. They are always a suicide risk because they will always hate themselves and want to die. Anorexic people don't suddenly stop hating themselves because they're losing weight(dangerously), they hate themselves even more. It's not sustainable to accommodate people like this, they will continue to destroy themselves because they hate who they are.
Hoss.
Sounds somewhat similar to major depression. There may be medicines, therapy and mental hospitals, but most people don't seem to realize that there are legitimately some people that can never escape depression and end up killing themselves. Same can probably be said about people confused with their gender. There will always be people that cannot be treated. Although a majority of patients that go to mental hospitals turn out fine, there are always a few that cannot be changed.

This mental illness may be curable, but often times when it is "cured" people end up falling into deep depressions and the entire experience ends up being extremely hard on them. I think that if people legitimately find happiness in changing their genders, or even acting like the opposite gender, then good for them. That's a hell of a lot better than any kind of therapy. I apologize if this does not really apply to the conversation but I have a lot of experience with mental illnesses and they are often very misunderstood. Just because a mental illnesses may be curable does not mean that it is anywhere near easy. It is often very difficult as everybody is different.
Last edited by Aracoon; Jun 5, 2015 at 07:42 PM.
Originally Posted by Aracoon View Post
This mental illness may be curable

I would say that it is impossible to cure, because there is nothing to be cured. If someone feels like they are of the opposite gender, and are happy being that gender, what the hell is there to cure? It's the same thing with being gay. You don't have a choice, you are born with it.
Originally Posted by ImmortalPig View Post
That's not much of a therapy, you haven't fixed the actual problem.

Imagine trying to apply the same logic to other kinds of trans disorders;
Trans-species? Translate brain into a cat body, problem solved.
Trans-racial? Bathe in paint every day, problem solved.

The treatment for anorexia isn't "lose a bunch of weight", it's lunacy to refer to indulging a mentally ill person's delusions as "treatment". You can't hide the problem forever and expect it to just go away.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...h.mentalhealth
http://waltheyer.typepad.com/blog/20...ain-traum.html
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0016885


Then you and I have different views on therapy.
To me therapy regarding mental illnesses is only necessary when a person is unable to function socially. As soon as the person is capable of functioning again and possesses the means to be happy it's time to stop therapy.
There is no reason to stop someone from changing their gender if that's what they want after all other options have been proven to be inefficient to reach the goal of happiness.

I appreciate your ability to quickly google some sources to support your point. What I don't appreciate is that you are not capable of telling how valuable those sources are.
Individual cases are hardly relevant.
Particularly the study you provided is laughable. Of course transgender people have a higher mortality. They have a lot of problems to integrate into society, are inherently mentally unstable and suffer from all sorts of problems in general.
You should also look up a study about mortality rates of people who want a sexchange but don't get it, or people with any sort of mental disorder for that matter. You will find that most or even all of them have increased mortality rates.
Originally Posted by Kyure View Post
I would say that it is impossible to cure, because there is nothing to be cured. If someone feels like they are of the opposite gender, and are happy being that gender, what the hell is there to cure? It's the same thing with being gay. You don't have a choice, you are born with it.

Because they are never happy. That's the problem here. Something always feels out of place. Their interactions with people become trying not to piss them off/offend them in some way, because you always know they are just that close to offing themselves. Interactions become a mine field, and often times that person's life is at stake. It's incredibly dangerous. It's like major depression in a lot of ways. People close to the person suffer, the person suffers a lot, it's bad.

Oh they saw an ovarian cancer commercial? Now they're going to feel awful for the next month and may try to commit suicide. It's not normal to have feelings that intense because of things like that. The suicide rate among transgenders speaks volumes about how dangerous it is.
Last edited by Hyde; Jun 5, 2015 at 09:04 PM.
Hoss.
Originally Posted by Hyde View Post
Because they are never happy. That's the problem here. Something always feels out of place. Their interactions with people become trying not to piss them off/offend them in some way, because you always know they are just that close to offing themselves. Interactions become a mine field, and often times that person's life is at stake. It's incredibly dangerous. It's like major depression in a lot of ways. People close to the person suffer, the person suffers a lot, it's bad.

As someone whos best friends are trans, I can tell you this isn't true. Almost all of them are super happy with their lives right now. They consider themselves male, and society should too.
Originally Posted by lumpysolo View Post
As someone whos best friends are trans, I can tell you this isn't true. Almost all of them are super happy with their lives right now. They consider themselves male, and society should too.

Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence. I'm glad they're happy, but it usually isn't the case.

http://www.research.va.gov/currents/...all2013-12.cfm

Redundant said it too, mental illnesses inherently have a higher suicide risk. It's a mental illness like many other mental illnesses, and equally as dangerous.
Hoss.
Originally Posted by Redundant View Post
Then you and I have different views on therapy.
To me therapy regarding mental illnesses is only necessary when a person is unable to function socially. As soon as the person is capable of functioning again and possesses the means to be happy it's time to stop therapy.
There is no reason to stop someone from changing their gender if that's what they want after all other options have been proven to be inefficient to reach the goal of happiness.

I appreciate your ability to quickly google some sources to support your point. What I don't appreciate is that you are not capable of telling how valuable those sources are.
Individual cases are hardly relevant.
Particularly the study you provided is laughable. Of course transgender people have a higher mortality. They have a lot of problems to integrate into society, are inherently mentally unstable and suffer from all sorts of problems in general.
You should also look up a study about mortality rates of people who want a sexchange but don't get it, or people with any sort of mental disorder for that matter. You will find that most or even all of them have increased mortality rates.

What the fuck do you mean "function socially"? What the fuck does that even mean. What the fuck is that concept.

If a guy wants something, he may try to get it. I don't understand why would he need a very nice social life for that. Cause social life has to do things with like social skill and a lot with your compatibility with the people someone surrounds himself with or is surrounded by.

If he doesn't get it in a given time limit, he doesn't get it. Not everyone can have everything he wants, that's part of the supply and demand principle.

Like you want big sushi set, you buy the fucking big sushi set
If you want to be a great program, you learn to be a good programmer
If you wanna be a mathematician, you study the fucking math hard and improve your math game a lot
If you wanna to get a gf, you do the drills, you practice your inner and outer game
I don't see social standing in Western world as being some stuff that you can't directly influence over time with work, tbh.