Hi everyone, this is a definitive guide that I decided to write up in order to collect all of the current policy, rules and information about deals regarding things that are not tc or items (so stuff like paypal sales, steam cards etc etc - these will be called "other payment forms
" for the sake of this thread). This comes after a recent bout of supposed steam card sales where some nasty scams could have easily been prevented by better trading practice and where victims were unaware of to what degree we supported such incidents. I also realised that our policy for this in practice is not listed anywhere past this thread
and allows a degree of interpretation and ambiguity.
Because of that I decided to make this thread so that the rules regarding such sales are completely clear and you know exactly what to expect in regards to support from us if you get scammed.
Other payment forms
As I said above, this includes anything that is not tc or items. Paypal, other electronic money transfers, steam cards, giftcards, steam items etc etc all fall under this banner. As long as these payment forms don't have their own rules explicitly disallowing you from trading with them then, then as no rule here disallows it either, you are free to trade with these things at your own risk.
Since these payment forms are external from Toribash we have no control over verification of them or enforcing transfers of them.
Support for other payment forms
If you decide to use these payment forms then protected PayPal (not the one where you send as a gift) is the suggested method as it has a chargeback mechanic that you can use if you get scammed. Read more about that under the "Preventing Scams" section here
you will get very limited support if you get scammed while using other payment methods. The most we will be able to refund to you from cases such as these will be from using tc and items that the scammer may have on their account or obvious alts/banks up to the value of the money you lost. If they have no items or tc, or have disposed of it before we get there then that is too bad - these things will not be generated back for you. Because of this we strongly suggest that you use common sense and precautions if you really most use other payment methods.
(Note that the marketsquad holds no liability for getting to scams after items and tc have been disposed of where, if they had gotten to it earlier, they would have been able to save more assets. We handles scams as quickly as we can but make no promise of how quickly this is. We are volunteers and are prone to real life happenings and other priorities. The best thing you can do is to not get scammed in the first place.)
Support for other payment methods where you are a third party to a scam
This scenario happens less often but after a recent occurrence we figured it'd be good to put here.
Here's the scenario:
User A is the scammer and makes a deal with unsuspecting user B.
User B agrees to the deal and sends his half of the deal. User A doesn't send their half.
User A now goes on to sell the stuff they just received to User C - a third party who thinks they are making a normal legitimate deal. They sell it to them in exchange for some other payment method.
User A now has payment in some external form from Toribash. User C now has User B's items. User B now has nothing.
In a normal case where only tc is exchanged it is easy for us to reverse the transactions so that Users B and C get their stuff back and the scammer is left with nothing. However when people engage in these trades with other payment methods (normally nonrefundable or reversible stuff like steam trades) we can't follow our normal procedure.
What will happen in cases like this where User C can't reverse their payment to User A, the scammer:
Half of the items will be sent to User B, the original owner, and half will be left with User C, the third party. This is not an ideal solution since both parties still lose out in half. But we justify this because neither party is completely without fault. User B managed to get themselves scammed. User C failed to use a reversible payment method or some form of payment with protection.
If for some reason you really want to trade for stuff that isn't tc or items then make sure you only use paypal with buyer protection that you can charge back if necessary.
Cases where we will consider generating all or portions of your lost assets back
Despite all of the above, there are times when we will support - in full or in part - a scam incident where other payments have been used.
This occurs only in situations where you have done a deal with a longstanding and trusted member of the community who has no or very little history of scams and market breaches and where this sort of incident was not expected at all. This is judged by the marketsquad and if you wish to get our opinion on a user's trustworthiness in relation to other payment methods then we offer this service
. Please note that our advice will always be to not engage in trades with other payment methods but if you still wish to proceed then we can try our best to make sure you are as informed as possible.
The amount of support that we will offer will depend on the circumstances of the case and include things such as the character of the user in question with regard to the above, the amount of risk you have taken, the precaution(s) you have taken and any other details we feel should be taken into account.
Application of these rules and policies in practice
The above information applies to whenever other payment methods are used in Toribash. So it can apply to anything from sales in the items board to duels.
Tips for scam prevention
is an excellent resource on scam prevention and I advise you all to read it.
Additional tips for deal with other payment methods specifically:
- Don't do deals with other payment methods if you don't have to
- Make use of this service
- Don't engage in deals with other payment methods with new accounts even if they have supposedly done deals with other community members recently without issue. These are often alts made by scammers and should be trusted at your own risk. Also remember the situations discussed above for when we will generate back lost assets. If an account is new and has limited history we will very likely not support you.
- Use common sense. If a deal seems too good to be true then it probably is.
I'll leave this thread open to allow for questions. I won't be speaking about the basis for why we choose to do it this way (past the short explanation following) as I think that's fairly straightforward - pretty much we want to promote user awareness and active precaution. We believe that if you take disproportionate risks and engage in sketchy trades then it is not our job to fix you back up. This is the same stance we take on loan scams. We believe that you should have the freedom to these things if you want and we aim to keep you as well informed as we can and to support scams only in fair and reasonable circumstances.
Thanks for reading. I hope it has given you a bit of an insight into how these sorts of cases are dealt with and how you can stay safe.