Shoveling is annoying and winning isn't the point, belts are not the point. It's kind of like sparring in front of your master. You may have won, but the loser could have impressed him more. The point is to look as bad ass as possible, even if you lose you'll see that you looked like a better player and you inevitably have more skill.

I play multiplayer for a few simple reasons.

1. Unpredictable fights. Shovelers lacks this.

2. The chance to legitimately kick another persons ass
with a bad ass move. Being shoveled is not being owned in
anyway no matter how high the points.

3. Cool moves that you may have pulled off or the opponent.

A win or loss there is always going to be a cool fight without the presence of a shoveler.

Also shovelers should lose the attitude when they win it's really nothing to be proud of. I can kick a guy in the nuts
and win, but that's is nothing to be proud of. Being proud after getting punched in the face makes more sense.

Shovelling doesn't take much skill, and is annoying.
I like it when someone actually puts up a fight rather than using an overused move.

I'm not going to try and back up my points anymore. I might get another infraction for "insulting" a member.

Cool, closing.

Reopening.
Obviously, shoveling is a frequently used tactic in aikido, because it makes it easier to get your opponent out of the ring.
Why most of you are hating on shovelers is because;
A: They are not using any real skill by shoveling
B: It is a "noob" technique
C: Because you lose to them
Toribash involves manipulation of your various joints to achieve an end, that might be getting the most points in a match, or removing your opponent from the dojo.
This is win or lose, there is no middle ground. The means in which you win or lose does not matter. Shoveling is the future of aikido, and it needs to be understood that the only way this will end is not by focusing all of your hate on those who shovel, but by effectively countering said shovel. If you can't face that, go play another mod.
Regardless, this is all off topic.
If you want a shoveling debate, this discussion board is right here.
This is still a tutorial.

Calling someone a scrub is an insult, so don't be upset about that infraction. Don't take it personal. You could have asked for some back up reasoning before insulting me.

A single replay does indeed prove nothing. But I know siku. You didn't beat him 30 times before. Maybe if you weren't shoveling but assuming that's all you do, you didn't.

Of course you either win or lose. But there is a difference on how you win/lose. Let me use an exaggerated example:
If I use instagib and my opponent doesn't, it is not making me more skilled or a better player if I keep winning. It gets only more embarassing if I lose.
True skill is shown when you pull off stuff others couldn't. Shoveling can be done by everyone (I guess you can agree that everyone can do a predetermined move). And at least from what I've seen, you are allowed to proove me wrong, there is not much skilled involved in getting the dude out of the ring once he is lifted. And if the shovel failed it is rather unusual they do a comeback and still win (due to lack of players skill).

When I said it restricts gameplay and removes possibilities I meant the movements of the players are getting very restricted due to the torsograb (if you are a 'good' shoveler you are going for torsograbs). I don't hate shovels because I'm not able to beat them or they are hard to beat at all. I hate them because they restrict the movements so much. All shoveled matches are almost the same. Of course I could use a shovel counter every turn and win almost every time. But that doesn't involve any fun. What interests me in aikido are the possibilities how you can deal with different moves. Mostly by improvising my first move and looking how I can exploit the flaws in my opponents move.

Calling someone a scrub is not an insult, it's a generous favor from a great player to allow the scrub to be aware that they need to grow the fuck up.


If your definition of an infractable offense is "insulting someone" then you might as well infract siku.

Are you absolutely killing me? "a generous favor from a great player to allow the scrub to be aware that they need to grow the fuck up"? Of course you got infracted. Insulting someone has been a rule since I can remember. The difference between you and siku is, siku insults people in wibbles.
Wibbles; 'no holds barred'

Notice, there are only 5 rules in wibbles. Read them. None of which involve insulting other members.


Now, as to back on topic. There are very simple methods to defeating a shovel. So people should quit complaining. Yes, they are annoying when done multiple times. But common sense is all you need. Shovels require: Legs + Arms. Take out one of those, and the shovel fails. ie: kick and fracture the leg or grab and fracture an arm. Or even lower your self under the player, and reverse the shovel that way. If you know what your doing shovels do not have many strengths.

This is a tutorial. If you want a discussion, take it to the discussion board. Consider this fair warning. Anyone who continues debating in this thread will get infracted.

in akidio i cant stop using shovel moves