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Old May 2, 2019   #1
Alpha
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bad expirience with religion
so, here is the reason why i made this:
i live in a muslim country (algeria) and was raised a muslim,
after doing alot of research i decided that i'm becoming a free thinker (deist) and haven't told anyone for a while,
recently i tried to tell some of my friends and showed them my reasons,
their reaction was literally regecting scientifical facts and saying all my information is from fake articles and the real articles say the same things quran says (they believe flies have deseases on one wing and it's medicine on the other, just so you know the amount of stupidity i'm dealing with).
so, after a long ass debate and them not being able to say anything relevant they decided to threaten me by telling my religious af parents which is probably going to result in me getting kicked out of the house.
they refused to respect my point of view and even started to dislike me as a person

now, as i see it this way of thinking is engraved into them because of the religion they are following, they say the stupidest things and claim they are facts just because they are written in some book they were told is the word of god, i also kind of see some supremacist manners and way of talking when they talk to me and tbh they are making me hate religion more and more.

i wonder if anyone know a good way to make close minded people listen to reason and proof. i would really appreciate it, maybe post a bad expirience you had with religion aswell.
Aadame:I'm very signaturable
It's just no one usues my shit .
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Old May 2, 2019   #2
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Do not deny their beliefs. Express your concerns and doubts and make sure you are very careful to not sound like you are directly rejecting what they say.

I actually enjoy religious discussion though it's normally with Christians due to my location. I always make sure to make it as clear as possible that I'm not saying their beliefs are wrong or anything like that. I'm simply asking questions and expressing my concerns in regards to my own assessment of it's validity. It is a discussion not a debate. Once it becomes a debate things turn south real quick.

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Old May 2, 2019   #3
Alpha
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well, i did try to make questions at first but they will say the same thing: "if its written in the quran it must be right"
Aadame:I'm very signaturable
It's just no one usues my shit .
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Old May 2, 2019   #4
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Well religion is often a very closely held belief for a lot of people and for some people that can make it essentially impossible to discuss and you're probably better off just keeping you mouth shut. You don't have to convert them to your viewpoint.

If you're dead set on having this discussion with your peers then you could always act as if you still are on board with it but are just seeking clarification.

Religion is a emotionally charged topic for a lot of people and you never want to seem like you're directly denying their beliefs or they may get upset and the conversation will go no where. There's no need to cause unnecessary conflict or turmoil in your life, if it's not worth discussing then just don't discuss it.

TL;DR dont get kicked out of your house over something this silly

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Old May 3, 2019   #5
Alpha
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welp, its too late this time, i'm literally going to debate an imam tomorrow, gotta get myself ready to hear alot of lies.
Aadame:I'm very signaturable
It's just no one usues my shit .
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Old May 3, 2019   #6
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run as far as you can
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Old May 3, 2019   #7
Divine
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Here's the thing. Religion is primarily about faith, as much as some people will tell you there are factual reasons or whatever to believe a specific religion, to believe most major religions you essentially just have to have faith that the religious leaders and text tell the truth. There is no way to debate faith. A full on debate with a very strongly religious person often will get no where, not only will it get no where the person also may feel attacked by having their core beliefs challenged and you run the risk of triggering the back fire effect. I strongly recommend you dont try to actually debate religion because even if the religion is completely factually correct there isn't enough surviving primary sources from the time period of its founding to effectively evaluate its historical accuracy.

My mother is very christian and I was raised in a christian household (though my dad is actually no longer christian), I am no longer christian, my mom has no idea because I've never told her or discussed it with her. It's not worth it. Why would I piss off my family and create a bunch of turmoil simply because I don't buy into the religion they subscribe to?

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Old May 3, 2019   #8
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ok, tbh i pretty much thought the same things but its just sickening to me to see how everyone here would accept it if we had sharia law and started killing apostates and gays, supress women's rights even more, cut people's hands for stealing, insulting other people's beliefs...ect i can't stand it anymore.
a good example would be when feminists went protesting for their rights in a protest to change the government.
imo the rational thing to do is explaining the goal of our protests and that its not a good time to be asking for their rights and they can always do it after all this is done,
well, do you know what people did? they sprayed them with fucking bleach and several were hospitalised with permanent marks. they were also called whores who are enemies for religion just because they want equal rights to men that neither the religion nor the law give (even tho our laws are not nearly as bad as middle eastern laws).

people here will also outright deny anything about their religion that they do not agree with even if its literally in the fucking quran (sex slaves for example).

anyway my "friends" who say they want good for me basicly forced me to have this debate with the imam because they "do not have enough knowledge".
i'm just planning to ask some questions about things that are proven millions of times wrong, if he try to twist the meaning i'll call him out on it and the debate contnue and if he strongly stated that his explanation is right without a valid proof or just claimed that they are right and science is wong or claimed that science say the same and my resources are lies the conversation simply end there.
Aadame:I'm very signaturable
It's just no one usues my shit .

Last edited by Alpha; May 3, 2019 at 01:38 AM..
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Old May 3, 2019   #9
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You have every right to be upset and your criticisms are perfectly valid. Just remember it’s not worth endangering yourself to debate a brick wall. I’m sure you have plenty of well thought out points, questions, and criticisms, the only thing is that I fear it doesn’t matter. It is probably close to impossible to change their views on religion no matter what is said (implying I have interpreted the situation you face correctly), and if what you said is true it sounds like you could face serious repercussions from your family for speaking out. I don’t see any scenario in which this ends up benefiting you, it sounds to me like you’re going to debate a brick wall just for it to remain a brick wall and for you to become homeless.

Your frustration and anger are valid do not get me wrong, but some things are not worth it. I commend you for wanting to stand up against injustice but at the moment you are a lone rebel against a entire militia, fall back, regroup, live to fight another day.

If you do go through with it do not escalate, in terms of wether or not the religion is correct just remember no one truly knows if there is a god or where we came from. It is very difficult to argue a counter point when the counter point doesn’t exist. I am always very careful to acknowledge the persons religion very well might be true, I don’t know, I simply have questions and criticisms. I simply try to point out the specific spots that trouble me with the religion and I give them the opportunity to remedy my discomfort, I don’t tell them “it’s wrong because of this” I try to say “ok, but these two things seem like a logical contradiction to me, what do you think?”. In my experience the only real way to bring change in their thinking is to ask questions and have them figure out the flaws on their own as they attempt to answer my questions. Direct confrontation doesn’t work.

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Old May 3, 2019   #10
Alpha
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well the consequences of my parents knowing are becoming homeless at best and being taken into a mental hospital at worse, yes this acually happened to someone before.
i'm nervous that the imam himself will ask for me to be taken to a mental hospital or going thru rokya which is absolute bullshit imo (specially if you watch rokya shows, they are hilarious tbh).
i think the best option here is to not go through this crappy trip untill i'm atleast independent and just bear with the "you know you are wrong but wont admit it" bullshit which is kind ironic since i always admit it when proven wrong.
and that remind me: man, these imams and religion doctors are amazing at spitting noncence and making it convincing (unless you check resources ofc).
Aadame:I'm very signaturable
It's just no one usues my shit .
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