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Old Aug 22, 2016   #291
ThePirateKing
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The past makes you wanna die out of regret, and future makes you depressed out of anxiety. So by elimination, the present is likely the happiest time.
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Old Aug 22, 2016   #292
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The thing is he /was/ within 1% win rate of Tracer and Reaper, and equal pick rate, I'd consider that to be perfectly balanced (even if he was 13/22 for winrate...)

Literally any nerf is a bad thing for balanced heroes. Nerfing his damage by 20% (he already has some of the lowest damage in the game), ulti by 25%, forcing him to use SS to move around the map, adding lag on his SS after melee, these are all really not good. He needs equal buffs to keep him where he is, which is below average winrate and equal pick rate...

Some of what that guy says isn't right, so grain of salt etc.
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Old Aug 22, 2016   #293
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Originally Posted by wibblefox View Post
The thing is he /was/ within 1% win rate of Tracer and Reaper, and equal pick rate, I'd consider that to be perfectly balanced (even if he was 13/22 for winrate...)

Literally any nerf is a bad thing for balanced heroes. Nerfing his damage by 20% (he already has some of the lowest damage in the game), ulti by 25%, forcing him to use SS to move around the map, adding lag on his SS after melee, these are all really not good. He needs equal buffs to keep him where he is, which is below average winrate and equal pick rate...

Some of what that guy says isn't right, so grain of salt etc.

his damage didn't get nerfed
tbh I think the nerfs aren't that bad, with the exception of the triple jump

genji not being able to dash through traps seems fair, he's always been hard to pin down, and him being able to dash through traps only made it harder

combo nerf is reasonable, being able to burst 75% of someone's hp seems unfair for a hero with hard hitting long range basic attacks

ult nerf was expected, there's a reason why it was the most common potg


on a side note, on PTR I've been seeing a lot of mercy potg's, feels like they changed the system which decides the potg
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Old Aug 22, 2016   #294
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They nerfed his combo and assuming you hit all shuriken (gl) the melee is 20% of the damage.

tbh I never liked traps at all. It feels super cheap to have any ability that is a guaranteed kill. Junk throws them down in the middle of their team or right around a corner, it's practically impossible to avoid them in a team fight, and very hard to avoid them when coming around a corner, especially since on most maps the enemy will be playing high ground so you can't just stare at the ground all day. It's super cheap.

Just remember Genji's combo requires him to burn an 8 second cooldown, and if he doesn't get the kill he will likely die because that is his only escape. Many heroes hit more than 160 DPS, they don't need to do a combo, just left click. Remember there are heroes like McCree who can throw out 270 damage (assuming he doesn't even bother aiming for the head), Tracer who can autoattack for 240 damage, Reaper who attacks for 140 damage per attack - and he can attack TWICE per second!!! None of these heroes even have to burn cooldowns and they can hit way more than Genji, plus they are all hitscan!

Genji's long ranged attacks are not hard hitting and they are probably the hardest to land attack in the game. 84 DPS is horrible by overwatch standards. He's among the lowest damage, the only lower that come to mind is Mei's left click (45 DPS) and Rein's left click (75 DPS). Both of those are a lot easier to land than Genji's, but they are limited by range.

Saying that Genji's burst is OP or his regular attacks are even remotely strong is just plain wrong. He is one of the weakest heroes. His strength is that he can flank and get around the map fast, and that he has an ulti which can be used to team fight. All Genji does is harass back lines, maybe get picks if someone is weak and Genji can get in and get out. Because he relies so much on positioning if he dies it takes him much longer to get back in position, and he can't do his job of trying to counter enemy ultis and being ready to use his own in a team fight. Genji kills people and contributes to the team by outplaying them, not by having raw stats that just make him better. Even when you utli it isn't instant damage, you have to dance around with 5m of the enemy team trying not to die (200hp means you can be 1 shot by many heroes, and 2 shot by most, and don't forget the enemy team has 6 people!), every mechanic he has is based on player skill, you can't rely on crazy dps or being super tanky or having spammable teleports or whatever.

It being most common potg does not mean it is overpowered, it just means potg needs to be nerfed. If Zarya ults and then Genji cleans up Zarya should get potg. If Rein lands his stun and then Genji cleans up then Rein should get potg. Judging whether or not a hero is overpowered by their ability to get potg is just dumb. In 99% of circumstances a Junkrat just firing frags would have more impact on a fight than Genji ulti'ing, but because the potg is biased towards ultis the Genji will get it. This is not a problem with the hero, his utli is already one of the worst and riskiest in the entire game.


Afaik I have not heard any news of potg algorithm changes, so maybe just because Mercy's heal is increased by 20%, and they reduced the team mate stun by 25% she just has more impact now. Also probably because there are a lot more mercies in PTR because she actually changed, plus her changes are to make her more competitive against the heavily overpowered Lucio (who remains unnerfed) and Zenyatta (who was nerfed).
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Last edited by wibblefox; Aug 22, 2016 at 10:00 AM..
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Old Aug 22, 2016   #295
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he can still hit his melee, just because the animation can't get cancelled anymore doesn't mean there's no longer any melee

taking raw damage stats into account isn't fair for genji, he's way harder to hit than the other offense heroes due to his double jumping, while still able to throw his shurikens, which are not hard to hit at all at the range of the average fight.

genji's combo + 1 left click was enough to finish off a soldier and soldier could do nothing to stop him.

your examples about dps aren't representitive as reaper and tracer only deal half that damage at the range most fights take place, taking into account that the player has perfect aim.

you just missed the point about potg
when genji ults he can dash to someone, hit him a few times, dash to the next and so on, it barely required any positioning while still being able to pick up 4 kills most of the time which could easily secure you a checkpoint. sure it's easier if zarya ults the enemy team but it isn't necessary to get kills.

also lucio did get nerfed, though it probably won't be enough
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Old Aug 22, 2016   #296
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He can't do his combo now because there is lag when you try to swift strike, it's fan+melee or fan+strike, can't burst any more. If you were going to melee in that combo it's better just to wait for fan to come up again (FYI if you are doing fan+melee you actually LOSE dps compared to just using fan, because melee resets your cooldown). He lost his combo and thus lost damage.

? Double jump makes you easier to hit, not harder. On the deck Genji moves at 6m/s, in the air you move SLOWER than that, and you have SLOWER acceleration. Bhop is one thing, but double jumping gives you very little control compared to running on the floor. Jumping is situational in the first place, but double jumping is ONLY useful if you are fighting splash toons (pharah and to some extent junkrat) and even then ONLY if you have some way to make your landing unpredictable (something to hide behind, willing to burn a swift strike). You are much much much more survivable by using AD spam than by double jumping.

Soldier hits 170 DPS with his left click, if he shot for 1 second then meleed he could kill Genji, alternately he could shoot for .3 second, melee and then rocket and kill Genji. That is much faster than the 1.4 seconds (2 seconds post patch) that Genji needs to kill Soldier with full combo + an attack. There is nothing Soldier can do? What bullshit. Soldier could kill Genji before the Genji got in to melee for one thing, he could kill Genji while in melee thanks to his superior damage, easier to hit attacks, and splash. You might also remember that Soldier can outrun Genji, and that Soldier has a 40hp/s heal that he can panic drop to make it very very hard and very very risky for Genji to get the kill. What's more you are talking about throwing down Genji's escape to try and get a kill. In the event that Soldier really is 100% alone without anyone to help him (which realistically never happens), Genji is committed to the fight unless he wants to burn his deflect aswell. Yes, Genji can beat Soldier, by outplaying him. Which is the way the game should be, it shouldn't be scissors paper rock. Soldier has more damage, easier to hit attacks, can shoot further, can outrun Genji, can heal... It's not an easy fight for Genji but Genji can outplay.

My examples are purely on DPS, it's unrealistic to expect the Genji to hit more than 1 shuriken per toss, if that (the projectiles are among the slowest in the game with very small hitboxes and have staggered release). Tracer and Reaper can both run in close to hit 100% damage, just like Genji has to run in close to fight... If Genji had PERFECT accuracy and Tracer and Reaper were only 50%, they would still outdamage him... But it's not very realistic to expect Genji players to be twice as good as the players they are playing against.

To pick up 4 kills requires genji to land almost every single attack against 200hp targets. It is not an easy thing. What's more Genji has to survive the entire time, to get 4 kills is 8 attacks, ignoring that dashing takes time and thus reduces the frequency of his attacks, plus he has to turn and aim at his targets, he still has to survive for 7 WHOLE SECONDS to do that. A 200 hp herp right in the middle of a team surviving for 7 seconds is not an easy thing. Don't forget that most heroes deal far more damage than him, and if he's supposed to be killing 4 people, then there's 4 people trying to kill him.

You would be better off just dropping a Death Blossom, dropping a Self Destruct, dropping a Dead Eye, dropping a Rip Tire, dropping ANY OTHER ULTI IN THE ENTIRE GAME. There's not much (if any) ulties that are riskier and harder to use than Genji's. If Genji had his ulti swapped with anyone else I'd wager that the other hero would be worse off, and Genji would be better off.
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Last edited by wibblefox; Aug 22, 2016 at 11:14 AM..
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Old Aug 22, 2016   #297
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Originally Posted by wibblefox View Post
He can't do his combo now because there is lag when you try to swift strike, it's fan+melee or fan+strike, can't burst any more. If you were going to melee in that combo it's better just to wait for fan to come up again (FYI if you are doing fan+melee you actually LOSE dps compared to just using fan, because melee resets your cooldown). He lost his combo and thus lost damage.

? Double jump makes you easier to hit, not harder. On the deck Genji moves at 6m/s, in the air you move SLOWER than that, and you have SLOWER acceleration. Bhop is one thing, but double jumping gives you very little control compared to running on the floor. Jumping is situational in the first place, but double jumping is ONLY useful if you are fighting splash toons (pharah and to some extent junkrat) and even then ONLY if you have some way to make your landing unpredictable (something to hide behind, willing to burn a swift strike). You are much much much more survivable by using AD spam than by double jumping.

Soldier hits 170 DPS with his left click, if he shot for 1 second then meleed he could kill Genji, alternately he could shoot for .3 second, melee and then rocket and kill Genji. That is much faster than the 1.4 seconds (2 seconds post patch) that Genji needs to kill Soldier with full combo + an attack. There is nothing Soldier can do? What bullshit. Soldier could kill Genji before the Genji got in to melee for one thing, he could kill Genji while in melee thanks to his superior damage, easier to hit attacks, and splash. You might also remember that Soldier can outrun Genji, and that Soldier has a 40hp/s heal that he can panic drop to make it very very hard and very very risky for Genji to get the kill. What's more you are talking about throwing down Genji's escape to try and get a kill. In the event that Soldier really is 100% alone without anyone to help him (which realistically never happens), Genji is committed to the fight unless he wants to burn his deflect aswell. Yes, Genji can beat Soldier, by outplaying him. Which is the way the game should be, it shouldn't be scissors paper rock. Soldier has more damage, easier to hit attacks, can shoot further, can outrun Genji, can heal... It's not an easy fight for Genji but Genji can outplay.

My examples are purely on DPS, it's unrealistic to expect the Genji to hit more than 1 shuriken per toss, if that (the projectiles are among the slowest in the game with very small hitboxes and have staggered release). Tracer and Reaper can both run in close to hit 100% damage, just like Genji has to run in close to fight... If Genji had PERFECT accuracy and Tracer and Reaper were only 50%, they would still outdamage him... But it's not very realistic to expect Genji players to be twice as good as the players they are playing against.

To pick up 4 kills requires genji to land almost every single attack against 200hp targets. It is not an easy thing. What's more Genji has to survive the entire time, to get 4 kills is 8 attacks, ignoring that dashing takes time and thus reduces the frequency of his attacks, plus he has to turn and aim at his targets, he still has to survive for 7 WHOLE SECONDS to do that. A 200 hp herp right in the middle of a team surviving for 7 seconds is not an easy thing. Don't forget that most heroes deal far more damage than him, and if he's supposed to be killing 4 people, then there's 4 people trying to kill him.

You would be better off just dropping a Death Blossom, dropping a Self Destruct, dropping a Dead Eye, dropping a Rip Tire, dropping ANY OTHER ULTI IN THE ENTIRE GAME. There's not much (if any) ulties that are riskier and harder to use than Genji's. If Genji had his ulti swapped with anyone else I'd wager that the other hero would be worse off, and Genji would be better off.

not even going to argue with you anymore lmao
people are so focused on going from a to z they forget there's 24 letters in between
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Old Aug 22, 2016   #298
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Cos you know he's underpowered and shitty redditers crying is fucking the game :^)
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Old Aug 22, 2016   #299
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Originally Posted by wibblefox View Post
Cos you know he's underpowered and shitty redditers crying is fucking the game :^)

the fact that you think deadeye is better than dragonblade triggers me
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Old Aug 22, 2016   #300
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Originally Posted by dank View Post
the fact that you think deadeye is better than dragonblade triggers me

?

In comp you just deadeye and for 6 seconds you force them to react.

In any situation where you can get kills with Dragonblade you could at least as many with Deadeye. Though McCree's damage is so crazy the he just uses it to zone in competitive and tournaments.
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