Toribash
Original Post
Multiclans
Originally Posted by Rai
Now that the initial heat has died down from this situation, there has been some posts with good points brought up and I am keen to see the direction that the discussion takes. What I'd recommend is that you start a thread in the Suggestions and Ideas board and direct people from the Off-Topic thread there where we can try to build something better.

The purpose of this thread is develop a solution to this recent mess regarding Parakeet. Use this thread to suggest alternative solutions to the problems perceived by clan staff.

The problems as clan staff see it:
Our rational is as so:

Parent-child, sibling, feeder or any type of multi-clans like this circumvent many intentional limitations placed on toriclans:
- member limits
- easy war farming
- easy achievement farming
- easy xp farming in general
- much larger (unfairly so) catchment for new recruits
- two recruitment threads, one usually in a space reserved exclusively for unofficial clans
- potential to play twice in clan events
- undefined interaction with activity checking

This Off-Topic thread, started when this new rule banning 'multi-clans' was implemented, has several suggestions for alternate solutions to clan staff's concerns, as well as arguments addressing the validity of clan staff's concerns. That thread should be considered required reading before posting here. I think Redundant's post, especially, shines a light on several good points.
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My solutions to some the concerns raised:
Member limits - If a clan is formed for the sole purpose of de facto raising the member cap of another clan, then sure, ban that. You don't need to ban 'multi-clans' to do this, simply make a rule that says 'Abuse of the membercap system will not be tolerated'. Then, if it ever does happen that a clan is created to raise the membercap of another, you can stop them under that rule.

Easy war/xp/achievement farming - As above, make a rule that forbids abuse of the war + achievement system. Assumedly this rule would already exist. There's no need to over-bureaucratize this.

Potential to play twice in clan events - If they're two seperate clans, with two seperate memberlists, I don't see the problem. If you suspect collusion would happen, ban collusion.

Undefined interaction with activity checking - I'll define it for you. Clans are active, or they lose their board. Both clans would have to be active (if both clans were official (since unofficial clans don't get activity checked)). This is really a non-problem.
Last edited by Ele; Nov 19, 2017 at 08:43 PM.
Originally Posted by Ele View Post
Look at the Clan Discussion board right now. The only clans being bumped to the 2nd page are clans that haven't posted in 5 days.

Although I mentioned board activity, it should be noted that in a way it would be a part of an official clan inhabitting the unofficial clans' board. Again, if you insist on it being a clan so that you can train your recruits in a clan environment, why not make it a sub section inside your official clan instead.

Originally Posted by Ele View Post
We don't hold those sentiments, you're making a grossly hyperbolic strawman.

No, I was saying that my suggestion needs no consideration if the condition was true, which I'm inclined to believe it is slightly or at least for some of you because of your insistence to recruit people but keep them technically out of the clan until you've made them good enough, which is more or less what I said in a more mocking way. Whatever your intentions are, wanting to make a complex and potentially difficult to deal with system that would harm other unofficial clans and make moderation a lot more taxing (blah blah shmlipery shlope, do you want to implement rules that don't work if a lot of people decide to make feeder clans or if they turn out to be effective and become the standard?) just to keep people out of the clan until they're good enough, while you could just recruit people normally and kick them if they turn out smelly, can only be interpreted in so many ways.
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Not that I have a big problem with you wanting to keep a certain image I should clarify, the problem for me is demanding that something like this is implemented just for that purpose.
Last edited by pusga; Nov 20, 2017 at 01:30 PM. Reason: <24 hour edit/bump
oh yeah
Originally Posted by pusga View Post
Again, if you insist on it being a clan so that you can train your recruits in a clan environment, why not make it a sub section inside your official clan instead.

If I am understanding your suggestion correctly this is what we had already planned on doing with Parakeet

Also, I said this in some other thread (maybe this one) but we are not trying to groom people to our liking
FIRED UP
Parakeet a fair clan!I remember when Hack created Hack Academy in 2014 and it was accepted.
Guys, simply create a beginner clan without any affiliation to Parrot.
Then declare Parrot to be willing to recruit worthy members of said beginner clan.

It will be a one sided declaration and that essentially circumvents any staff knee jerk reaction.

This whole discussion is just a stupid show off of your bloated egos. I know what I am talking about because I also have an oversized ego.

Staff will likely not agree to your suggestions simply because you are coming at them aggressively and that turns them into a brick wall just for the sake of defensiveness and to show you who is boss.
What you should have done is agree to everything they proposed and then ask them for a solution that works for you. That way they would have come up with something for you rather than have you fight for anything they could have possibly given you.

It is too late for that most likely.
Now just do what I told you and live happily ever after.

PS, join Tribe.
How are you?
Heyyo Redundant, I love your idea there but won't that just get shut down like parakeet did? I run a little clan that would fit that logic, have since June. I don't want to have it shut down simply because [Parrot] extended an olive branch to having some of the members apply to it. :/

I just feel, if I were to affiliate it more with [Parrot] than it already can be with me they will destroy it and its purposes.
[SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/thWfXwy.png[/SIGPIC]
Wanna see some ruffled feathers in Taekkyon


<Icky> Damn my mouth is on fire but my loins stir like the straits
Originally Posted by Redundant View Post
Staff will likely not agree to your suggestions simply because you are coming at them aggressively and that turns them into a brick wall just for the sake of defensiveness and to show you who is boss.

This thread's been very civil from our side (and CS). The only aggressiveness in this thread has come from people who aren't from Parrot or CS.

I spoke with Erth on IRC after I posted my most recent post and we reached a possible solution. I understand that he'll be presenting it to the rest of CS to see if they agree (and to sir, to see if it's possible).

Waiting to see how that goes.
I don't think someone would close a clan just because Parrot steals their members. :P
Just make sure it is actually a stand alone and legit clan. Don't tell people who get rejected by Parrot to join that clan.

Create a beginner clan and steal its members into Parrot.
It is basically the same thing minus the whole child clan shebang.
Last edited by Redundant; Nov 21, 2017 at 02:49 PM.
How are you?
Originally Posted by nikosefs View Post
a suggestion/question,could this work if instead of sub-clan it
was made into an org?

that way you can get all the benefits of the separate forum (it can even get into official after a time i guess)
you can set any rules you like for the org joining process,you could even get members from other clans to join the org,
so it is even broader in terms of knowing new people and teaching them stuff (witch again,if you don't want its your org,
you set the rules of joining.)

and any problems get resolved since orgs don't participate in the clan system,
so no clan xp farming etc etc

im reposting this,it seems no one saw it and i wanna see any oppinions about this
orgs are kinda dead as of now, if parakeet was made as an org either it would go unnoticed or die pretty quickly
Originally Posted by basic View Post
orgs are kinda dead as of now, if parakeet was made as an org either it would go unnoticed or die pretty quickly

i think that if an org is dying that is because the ones that run it don't get enough publicity
or perhaps they are not trying enough,but i also believethat since parrots are pretty committed
to run parakeet they would make itpretty lively,they could redirect any potential recruits
into the org page,they could add it to their signatures perhaps,they could even add it to
their recruitment page and make it work.

for me its the optimal way since it has the benefits they need and at the same time
you don't get any of the downsides that have been pointed out.