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Old Jul 2, 2018   #1
Scourge
 
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Acceptance of antisocial behaviors in Toribash
I fully expect this to be met with some hostility, I am posting this because I am tired of being quickly dismissed or even outright silenced whenever I try to discuss this topic, I do not doubt that I myself have said, and done rude things, during my time here. Even so I believe that I still deserve be heard, just this once.

What I am here to discuss is in no way specific only to Toribash, nor is it unusual in online communities, but this should not excuse it from criticism. Many behaviors that we now consider cruel were once considered acceptable, and it isn't right to suggest that because something is a certain way, that's the only way it can be. My claim is that Toribash, like many other games, has a serious problem with lack of respect, and before you assume I'm some soft liberal pansy who wants everything to be a safespace, I am not here to suggest that certain types of humor or discussion should not be allowed, simply because they are offensive by their very nature.

What I am here to discuss is the intent behind messages, I think there is an important distinction to be made between making a comment directed at no one in particular, and making a comment directed at an individual. What I claim has happened, is that the use of ironically offensive humor and speech has inspired people to actually directly insult others and harass them. I have no issue with the idea that we should be allowed to say things online that we would be persecuted for saying in the real world, but I'm not here to discuss what we say, I'm here to discuss how we treat other people.
It has become far too acceptable to treat people disrespectfully online, and justify it by calling it a 'meme' or a 'joke' or otherwise suggesting that they shouldn't take it seriously, even when in reality the comment made WAS intended to be an insult. And I will not deny that I can see how trolling someone can be humorous, but I don't think that it is any better than a malicious prank, It is only funny to the person doing the prank, and someone else suffers because of it. I also claim that certain online communities are the only place where it has become socially acceptable to treat someone disrespectfully, and have the blame placed on the victim instead of yourself.

The most common responses to the victim are usually something along the lines of get over it/grow thicker skin, or that they should "just leave then", when in any other circumstance it would be the opposite response, it would be the perpetrator that would be asked to leave and not the victim. For whatever reason everyone has decided that it is more important that they maintain this hostile environment to protect their right to free speech online, than to promote a more civil and welcoming environment, however restricting what words people can use is not what I am concerned with. In my own personal experience whenever I have attempted to discuss this, I have been met with extreme hostility, and told that I was somehow deserving of the hate, because I myself am 'toxic', despite the fact that no one has ever been able to tell me what it is I have done to deserve such hatred.

It seems as if my very existence is reason enough to treat me poorly. Maybe it really is that I am so insufferable, but even so it's still in poor character. I honestly think that we can do better as a community, as small as this community is we need to get along if we want it to survive. And the way it is right now is honestly very disappointing. You can either dismiss this or discuss it with me, it doesn't really matter much to me now. I just needed to say this.

Last edited by Icky; Jul 2, 2018 at 08:02 PM.. Reason: god damn that wall was horiffic to read so i helped you out.
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Old Jul 2, 2018   #2
cocacobra
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Definitely a case by case thing. I can think of many people who are directly at the wrong end of homophobic or racist terms and instead of getting offended they recognize it's a joke and don't take it seriously because at the end of the day this is a videogame forum. Most of the time there's no real harm behind the terms and it's more of just a way of talking. Honestly there are groups in toribash who use them jokingly all the time and there are groups that are more cautious about it. Depends who you are around to be honest and I like it that way, that way if you're super sensitive about being called a fart licker you can hang out with the other people who are super sensitive about being called a fart licker.
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Old Jul 2, 2018   #3
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Originally Posted by cocacobra View Post
Definitely a case by case thing. I can think of many people who are directly at the wrong end of homophobic or racist terms and instead of getting offended they recognize it's a joke and don't take it seriously because at the end of the day this is a videogame forum. Most of the time there's no real harm behind the terms and it's more of just a way of talking. Honestly there are groups in toribash who use them jokingly all the time and there are groups that are more cautious about it. Depends who you are around to be honest and I like it that way, that way if you're super sensitive about being called a fart licker you can hang out with the other people who are super sensitive about being called a fart licker.

Thank you for taking the time to reply. And I have to say I agree that people have different standards on what they consider offensive, especially when it comes to slurs. Personally they don't really bother me just on their own, it's all about context. I think what bothers me the most is the general animosity and lack of sportsmanship from the average user more than anything. It seems like everyone is obsessed with schadenfreude, even when people haven't actually done anything to them personally. I often feel as if many users think very little of anyone other than themselves.
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Old Jul 2, 2018   #4
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While I can agree that many online communities have their problems, Toribash is making more of an effort to make this community safe and encouraging. It's not perfect, but there is an effort here. The help squad for example is here to provide new players with assistance and technical support if needed. In the case that a player gets scammed, we have the Market Squad to assist in that process. The staff cover every area of the forum and you only need to contact one of them if you're having a problem. Harassment is not tolerated. To quote from the global rules, "This includes any homophobic or racial slurs in any public space in the community".

What do you propose we do about the lack of respect?
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Old Jul 2, 2018   #5
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Thanks for the reply Goat. I would like to apologize if I offended any staff, I appreciate that a lot is being done to strengthen the community as it is. As for what could be done about the lack of respect, I think that's a difficult question, because requires either stricter rules, which I think we should try to avoid, or for Toribash users themselves to reconsider their behavior on their own. I think that in many communities online the freedom they allow can be both a blessing and a curse, it's easy to forget that it's another human being on your screen, and say something without really thinking much first. I myself have said things that I'm not proud of, so I don't want to suggest that it makes someone a bad person by any means.

I do think that it would be beneficial if we all took more time to discuss what kind of place we want the Toribash community to be, I made this thread because I wanted to better understand the thought process behind the type of behavior I've described. And I really want to be able to call Toribash home, but it's becoming too hard on my mental health to keep playing. I know we can all do better than this if we try.
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Old Jul 2, 2018   #6
basic
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I lack an infraction. I

Last edited by basic; Jul 3, 2018 at 04:11 AM..
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Old Jul 2, 2018   #7
Scourge
 
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Originally Posted by basic View Post
grow a pair bitch

Maybe I was wrong
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Old Jul 2, 2018   #8
Arakata
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Call Toribash community a home would be possible if almost everyone in here take a second to think about how our words will affect who is reading. We must answer this question before writing anything: will my words hurt whoever is reading it? not talking only about slurs, but how we treat each other in general. Even if who is reading it is my friend, i still must take care about what i am writing/saying. I agree 100% with you.

More than a year ago i've applied to a clan wich i am not going to mention the name, and by no reason someone just offended me. Alright, i wasn't the best person more than 1 year ago, but i mean... wtf was that? there was no reason for the slur at the time of the application. slurs aren't the real problem over this community imo. The real problem is that there are a lot of users with a sensitive personality, but almost no one respect them. However, this community have teached me to not be so sensitive.. i've been forced to. It seems like a minimal reason to be crying about, but everyone is different.

Last edited by Arakata; Jul 3, 2018 at 12:03 AM..
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Old Jul 3, 2018   #9
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There is also the issue that anyone that complains of such behavior is almost always told to leave or go somewhere else, but the real question is where? As far as games go this is a very wide spread issue, are we just not supposed to enjoy any online games if we don't like being insulted without reason? Maybe we're tired of being forced out of everywhere we go, simply because we expect basic human decency and respect.

The things people say to you in games are horrible, how is that we're asking too much when we just don't want to be treated like garbage, and then be told that we're somehow the problem with everything? Why can't Toribash be that friendly place we go? It would be the best for all of us and for the game.
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Old Jul 3, 2018   #10
@JoboMan
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I think its kinda the competitiveness of the game that brings out the insults but I mean this is a very long lasting community so we cant be doing much wrong?


edit: but yea I mean people do take it pretty far often
I apologise for this post.

Last edited by JoboMan; Jul 3, 2018 at 03:52 AM..
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