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Old Jan 22, 2019   #31
Erth
One Bang Dan
 
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 9,130
Clan: Tribe



Originally Posted by Mafia View Post
I don't think anyone would have a problem with de-officialization if it didn't mean they will lose their history (threads/posts) and have to start over.

e.g Official clan becomes inactive for a while, Gets de-officialized, stays inactive for months, then when they become active again, they would apply for official again, get official again and get their old board back. which means they will have their old posts/threads there still, and continue as if nothing happened.


And if they don't become active again after they are de-officialized, then they will be treated like any other unofficial clan till they are a dead clan
then their official boards can be deleted if it has to be.

Fair enough. We can make it so people retain their boards. I said no to Trestet yesterday as I was unsure and wanted to discuss it with the team.
(didn't wanna go merging boards without some forethought)
Having said that, I would like to keep the toriclan saying the latest date of officialization. This gives us a defined date as to when the latest itteration of the clan made it back to official, and your own records would keep track of the previous embodiment of the clan.

Originally Posted by Insanity View Post
he whole thread and it all sounds good.


As i see the only problem now is sp clans.
But you do get 25 points only from forum activity so the clan passes. So al they want to do if they want to have a clan is to post replays in clan board and they are good to go. Don;t even see why this is a problem. If they want more they should play the game like the rest of us plebs.




I find the clan room perk very nice and i have a few ideas about it.
I think it should cost a lot of perk at the begining but after you should only pay a moderate fee every 6 months.
To get people to actually play in the rooms is trickier. I would like to think of this room as customisable. So beside gettting the room you can also get other perks for it.
- Like a big wall far away with clan logo (3d item) that only apears in that room
- welcome messages for clan members like on discord when you join a room. For example : insanity joins room, /cp text says All hail Insanity! (maybe the perk comes with 3 options to edit and text is randomly shown)
- colored clan tag text in room
Maybe more, can;t think of any more atm.

SP clans have a solution in place whereby the activity check loks at uploads to the database in the replay board.
This also applies to the mods board, so people who make mods count as active.
Your idea as to how to obtain and maintain a clan static server was similar to my first thoughts.
One large investment of perk points, and then smaller amounts as upkeep every 2 months (to keep in line with activity checks).
I don't think it's possible to have things like welcome messages set up just for one server, and it would be too intrusive in every server.
Again, I'm not sure if we could do those kinds of 3d item options in just one room, might need to be done with mods?
The coloured tags in game and stuff was suggested, and I really don't like the idea tbh. I already don't like that legends get colours/crons ingame. IMO that kind of thing should be reserved for staff and ops of servers, jsut for the sake of clarity and I really don't want to add to that.

Originally Posted by Immotay View Post
I like a lot Insanity's idea to have a static 3d item in the clan server, custom name or OP color, if that ever comes to the game. I feel like the current system requires too much ingame activity but the perks are all forum related so there's no ingame rewards for the effort you make.


Also, another suggestion for a perk would be to have an item similar to the head avatar that displays under your score ingame, but it'd have your clan logo instead.

Maybe it could come with a small discount (10 or 15%) when bought in a bundle together with the clan logo for forum posts, or have that discount to apply as if you own one, the other is a little bit cheaper and vice-versa.

The logo is a possibility, will look into that, although I don't know how it would conflict with the current icon item.
Discounts based on clan size would be a thing to even out the prices for larger clans, on most if not all of the perks that add specific things to accounts.


TY for commenting and getting involved guys, it's much appreciated.
Hopefully gonna get off my ass and revamp the rules threads today, at which point the spring cleaning portion is done and we can move forwards with some suggestions.
raid | JollyR | Urban | Tribe | NO | T
ORMO | OSHI | OLDA | NOoT | Team Judo

Also I stream tetris https://www.twitch.tv/onebangdan/
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Old Jan 24, 2019   #32
Erth
One Bang Dan
 
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 9,130
Clan: Tribe



Hey, double posting because updates.

The stickies are now up to date with all the new shiny information, and also condensed so hopefully they're a bit easier to follow and digest. If they're missing anything just let one of us (CS) know and we'll add it in or try to clarify as best we can.
(shout-out to Life and Yuki for helping write up those threads)

Now that that's done and out of the way we can look at trying to develop some of these perks and get them rolled out to make it more interesting for you guys.

We'll also start doing activity checks on the first of Feb, so be aware of that!

Oh, I'm also re-opening clan squad applications. Not a recruitment drive or anything, but we're no longer auto-rejecting apps.
raid | JollyR | Urban | Tribe | NO | T
ORMO | OSHI | OLDA | NOoT | Team Judo

Also I stream tetris https://www.twitch.tv/onebangdan/

Last edited by Erth; Jan 24, 2019 at 02:33 PM..
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Old Jan 27, 2019   #33
sirkill1
 
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,352



This is stupid, and I think a large number of official clans is and was fine. I joined this game 10 years ago and the community was much more active then. There were no obstructive checks like this, and the point system makes no sense. I haven't had the game installed in a number of years but I like the people I talk to in forum and don't think you have the game installed either Erth. You have legendary status on your clan so you don't have to give a shit about whether your clan is active or not because your board will be there regardless. A large majority of players feel the same way about their clan that you do. Which is to say that their clan is very inactive but they feel connected to it, and would like to occasionally talk to the old members.

If the point is to have more active clans, this isn't the way to do it.

Long story short, old players, 4+ years are your userbase and they pretty much will never meet these criteria because a majority do not have the game installed. New players won't enjoy it because they feel pressured to keep playing and it will start to feel like a chore rather than something to enjoy.

Please reconsider this new nonsensical point system thing and go back to the way it was in 2010.
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Old Jan 28, 2019   #34
Azraeel
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3rd Dan Black Belt
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 88



I have a lot of problems with activity in-game, like im on everyday on discord etc. But like not Toribash. This is why i quit playing sometimes. I feel like the community's voice is not heard. Toribash is a game about the community yet you dont listen to us and even when you do you disagree with us stating some silly reason. My clan is dead too TBN. Now i believe we need a new overhauled clan system. I do not support forced activity ingame or do i support silly fucking rewards on forums for lame ass perks. We want real rewards. Im a clan leader and i know how hard it was to lead a clan give us a real reward....
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Old Jan 28, 2019   #35
Note
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,088



Originally Posted by sirkill1 View Post
This is stupid, and I think a large number of official clans is and was fine. I joined this game 10 years ago and the community was much more active then. There were no obstructive checks like this, and the point system makes no sense. I haven't had the game installed in a number of years but I like the people I talk to in forum and don't think you have the game installed either Erth. You have legendary status on your clan so you don't have to give a shit about whether your clan is active or not because your board will be there regardless. A large majority of players feel the same way about their clan that you do. Which is to say that their clan is very inactive but they feel connected to it, and would like to occasionally talk to the old members.

If the point is to have more active clans, this isn't the way to do it.

Long story short, old players, 4+ years are your userbase and they pretty much will never meet these criteria because a majority do not have the game installed. New players won't enjoy it because they feel pressured to keep playing and it will start to feel like a chore rather than something to enjoy.

Please reconsider this new nonsensical point system thing and go back to the way it was in 2010.

I think sirkill is on to something, even if his post may not be the most eloquent way of putting it. The vast majority of the player base for Toribash in-game is new (or newer) players, and the forums are generally frequented by older players who either enjoy talking with friends they've made over their years here or enjoy pursuing a hobby (such as marketing, texturing, etc).

That's the kicker. I think most players who frequent the clans that would be put on the chopping block don't particularly care for the game itself, but the community created from that game is a lot more important. Slaughtering an old clan won't bring any more activity, and I'd predict that it will actually cause less activity. The fact is that it isn't 2008 anymore and forums are slow and relatively cumbersome, especially when there are mods telling people what they can and can't post within their own clan boards.

Shit, IRC used to always be the way to communicate without getting constantly infracted. I'll admit myself that I have my fair share of expired infractions from useless posting on clan boards, but the way I see it any posting on a private board is better than a group of dead players zombie posting some fake enthusiasm so that their board doesn't get taken down. On the public boards, sure, no shitposting and the like. On a clan board I find that there needs to be more autonomy for a clan to be what the members wish it to be; if a group of sp players seek to create a clan where all they talk about is hot women and their favorite replays, I don't see any issue with it.

Bottom line is that making new rules, or revamping old ones, won't get anybody more engaged with the game. Having moderators combing through logs and assigning points to clans, both old and new, won't make anyone have a good time. I remember a time when the purpose of a clan board was to socialize and make friendships, not reach a certain amount of posts so the clan could have a shiny new banner on the clan page. We need less moderation, not more.
goodbye cruel world
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Old Jan 28, 2019   #36
Erth
One Bang Dan
 
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 9,130
Clan: Tribe



Well the last couple of posts made for a pretty disappointing read. If you're going to bring up the old point of
> staff don't care
> you're detached
> you're not listening to the community
then you should probably read the thread.




Originally Posted by sirkill1 View Post
This is stupid, and I think a large number of official clans is and was fine.

I agree, that's why there's no longer a bullshit clan council system of cloak and daggers.

Originally Posted by sirkill1 View Post
I joined this game 10 years ago and the community was much more active then. There were no obstructive checks like this, and the point system makes no sense. I haven't had the game installed in a number of years but I like the people I talk to in forum and don't think you have the game installed either Erth.

I've played nearly 200 games this month and addressed this very point in another thread on the subject.
Originally Posted by Erth
I'm hoping to improve clans to the point where I want to leave a dead clan in order to join an active one to participate in the new features. That's how I'm going about this, if that helps.

Moreover; to pass the current system a clan can post 50 times a month and play 0 games to pass because we fucking know that no one plays toribash any more.


Originally Posted by sirkill1
You have legendary status on your clan so you don't have to give a shit about whether your clan is active or not because your board will be there regardless. A large majority of players feel the same way about their clan that you do. Which is to say that their clan is very inactive but they feel connected to it, and would like to occasionally talk to the old members.

If you're talking about occasionally talking, like making 5 posts every few months, then I dunno what you want me to do, dude. The clan is objectively not active, and objectively doesn't still need their board. We're not gonna keep around every official clan just because you feel you deserve it because you found toribash before a lot of other people?

Originally Posted by sirkill1
If the point is to have more active clans, this isn't the way to do it.

No, perks and reasons to play again are the way to do it. Which is what I consider the primary point of this thread.
The activity check was fixing something that was too harsh and making it passable and realistic.

Originally Posted by sirkill1
Long story short, old players, 4+ years are your userbase and they pretty much will never meet these criteria because a majority do not have the game installed. New players won't enjoy it because they feel pressured to keep playing and it will start to feel like a chore rather than something to enjoy.

Please reconsider this new nonsensical point system thing and go back to the way it was in 2010.

If i ran an activity check under the current system right now. All clans except desolate would pass.
2010 clan system was debatably even more retarded because there was nothing. Clan just kinda died when the clan admin felt like doing work. We're not going back to an age of nostalgia that never happened.

Originally Posted by Azraeel View Post
I have a lot of problems with activity in-game, like im on everyday on discord etc. But like not Toribash. This is why i quit playing sometimes. I feel like the community's voice is not heard. Toribash is a game about the community yet you dont listen to us and even when you do you disagree with us stating some silly reason. My clan is dead too TBN. Now i believe we need a new overhauled clan system. I do not support forced activity ingame or do i support silly fucking rewards on forums for lame ass perks. We want real rewards. Im a clan leader and i know how hard it was to lead a clan give us a real reward....

Please read the thread, dude...
If you have suggestions of "real rewards" then suggest them. But I'm not gonna listen (like I have been this entire time) if you come at me with attitude.

Originally Posted by Note View Post
I think sirkill is on to something, even if his post may not be the most eloquent way of putting it. The vast majority of the player base for Toribash in-game is new (or newer) players, and the forums are generally frequented by older players who either enjoy talking with friends they've made over their years here or enjoy pursuing a hobby (such as marketing, texturing, etc).

Not sure how true this is. It's true to say that most newer players don't end up finding the forums. They're more content to sit ingame, hence the changes towards not requiring forums to create clans, and the introduction of ingame toriclans.
Older players have clearly formed their own communities within their own sub boards, and the vocal majority in these threads don't stray far beyond them.

Originally Posted by Note
That's the kicker. I think most players who frequent the clans that would be put on the chopping block don't particularly care for the game itself, but the community created from that game is a lot more important. Slaughtering an old clan won't bring any more activity, and I'd predict that it will actually cause less activity. The fact is that it isn't 2008 anymore and forums are slow and relatively cumbersome, especially when there are mods telling people what they can and can't post within their own clan boards.

But that's just note true. It's just sirkill getting worked up. I've made it pretty clear that clan can pass easily by posting on their forums. Under the current criteria, a clan has to be pretty much totally dead to be killed.
None of what you're saying is untrue, but it's a complete non issue.
We also haven't moderated official clan boards strictly for like... a year now? So i dunno what that's about. Your own clan is pretty clearly not moderated by us, do you see the shit Verax posts?

Originally Posted by Note
Shit, IRC used to always be the way to communicate without getting constantly infracted. I'll admit myself that I have my fair share of expired infractions from useless posting on clan boards, but the way I see it any posting on a private board is better than a group of dead players zombie posting some fake enthusiasm so that their board doesn't get taken down. On the public boards, sure, no shitposting and the like. On a clan board I find that there needs to be more autonomy for a clan to be what the members wish it to be; if a group of sp players seek to create a clan where all they talk about is hot women and their favorite replays, I don't see any issue with it.

Again, doesn't seem like you've read the rule threads. So long as you don't post porn, gore or warez in your board, we don't care what you do there. Your own clan is currently destroying the activity checks almost entirely thanks to shit posting.


Originally Posted by Note
Bottom line is that making new rules, or revamping old ones, won't get anybody more engaged with the game. Having moderators combing through logs and assigning points to clans, both old and new, won't make anyone have a good time. I remember a time when the purpose of a clan board was to socialize and make friendships, not reach a certain amount of posts so the clan could have a shiny new banner on the clan page. We need less moderation, not more.

Again, it's a case of I guess? But also it's a non point and isn't particularly applicable to anything



For real people, don't just piggy back on other peoples anger. This thread, believe it or not, is trying to garner your ideas and be helpful. If you're not going to do me and my team the courtesy of reading it before posting then I dunno why you think you deserve to be listened to properly, when you've not listened to us.
We've put in a lot of work to make this system viable and fair, and work in a way that clearly doesn't kill older clans for the sake of it. There are obviously still improvements that can be made, but it's definitely not a case of "everything is shit, burn it all down" like it once was.

P.S it should also be worth noting that i'm more than happy to talk about this nicely on discord. Despite sirkill's assertions I do still enjoy toribash and enjoy talking about it. It's not a bother if you need clarification on something.
raid | JollyR | Urban | Tribe | NO | T
ORMO | OSHI | OLDA | NOoT | Team Judo

Also I stream tetris https://www.twitch.tv/onebangdan/

Last edited by Erth; Jan 28, 2019 at 09:30 PM..
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Old Jan 28, 2019   #37
Azraeel
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3rd Dan Black Belt
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 88



Sorry if my opinion is too straight forward and no i dont need to ask/tell what needs to be added the community has already asked for stuff ^^. Also, Yes my salt was unnessary. Anyway, What i mean by real rewards is like items, tc, etc more then cosmtic items more of something that helps/rewards the clan.
-----
Originally Posted by Azraeel View Post
Sorry if my opinion is too straight forward and no i dont need to ask/tell what needs to be added the community has already asked for stuff ^^. Also, Yes my salt was unnessary. Anyway, What i mean by real rewards is like items, tc, etc more then cosmtic items more of something that helps/rewards the clan.

And yes i know you said rewards but you should get what i mean as leading/being in a clan is like a job. And you must feel like you've did something amazing you feel like you got somewhere. Owning or being in a clan doesnt feel as cool as it use to be. Clans are kinda boring and nothing goes down with them. In my opinion i feel like there needs to be a lot more events for clans and in-general more rewards also make clans coolor i do like the ideas but i was thinking more of a solid relook at clans seeing how you can redo it and in-general make it feel awesome
The Emperor Decrees

Last edited by Azraeel; Jan 28, 2019 at 09:55 PM.. Reason: <24 hour edit/bump
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Old Jan 29, 2019   #38
Erth
One Bang Dan
 
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 9,130
Clan: Tribe



Originally Posted by Erth
COMING SOON - Clan Item Shop
Want an armband with your logo? A flag? Really want to rub it in how great you are? We got you covered.

Like that kind of thing?

Also there's more to do with clans than ever, outside of events.

Events require manpower, and as much as I'd like to start some clan events, I would prefer to fix these underlying clan issues before jumping to the next one.
I'm aware that clans should have events though - but it's not a short term priority.
raid | JollyR | Urban | Tribe | NO | T
ORMO | OSHI | OLDA | NOoT | Team Judo

Also I stream tetris https://www.twitch.tv/onebangdan/
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Old Jan 29, 2019   #39
Azraeel
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Join Date: May 2018
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Originally Posted by Erth View Post
Like that kind of thing?

Also there's more to do with clans than ever, outside of events.

Events require manpower, and as much as I'd like to start some clan events, I would prefer to fix these underlying clan issues before jumping to the next one.
I'm aware that clans should have events though - but it's not a short term priority.

Yes that kind of stuff, and also i understand manpower always a issue. I would totally sign up for event squad but i get denied xD. I pour my time into this game and try to help in anyway i can. SO Yes thats the kind of stuff i mean. Thank you for understanding
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Old Feb 7, 2019   #40
Static
 
T0ri0baby 4 Life Belt
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,257
Server: h



Hey all! Chair squad here!!
So as you all know, we performed our first activity check under the new criteria on the 1st of February and in the interest of being straight will y’all, here are the results.

oosh



Some of our first thoughts were that more people passed than we expected, which is super good, but some of the clans that passed with nearly 40 points are just a couple of people keeping a whole clan alive - which isnt necessarily right.

Another thing was that some of the clans that are clearly inactive were getting far more points than perhaps they should? 2 people shit posting does not make an active clan, and I'm not sure there's much of an argument against that. As such we would like to tweak a couple of the forum-based point things.
We'd like to make the points gained for forum posting more linear.
At the moment you get 25 points for 50 posts, 30 points for 200 posts. It's heavily stacked towards the lower end. We want to even that out a bit.
So you would receive 25 points for 100 posts and 30 points for 200* posts.

We're also planning to look at how much invasions skew these numbers.
(Erths personal opinion is that if a clan has a lot of friends, it tells me that the clan is doing well enough and still has influence - however this obviously only takes us so far. If the data shows that invasions are significantly skewing things then we'll need to reasses and maybe institute limits or something. Again, forum criteria will change to adapt to these kinds of changes to get a more accurate bearing on whether a clan is active.)

We also want to change the "warning" bracket from 25-30 to 30-50. This bracket seems to have the clans that are in worse off in terms of activity, and we hope this change would help prevent major inactivity *before* they happen, instead of after they've already happened. You will have noticed Erth post in the clan boards already for that.

We've also seen that quite a few clans are topping out, and we feel they should be rewarded for that, so we're gonna look into that.

We think it'd also be nice for a "best in category" prize or something. Every check we give a prize for more wars, most posts, most ingame active players, that kind of thing. Dunno how we want to go about that, yet.

So that's everything we've got so far from these checks. We are always open to new ideas from the community. Just go about explaining them in a respectful way.

*this bench mark may move around by 30 or so, depending on how we see clans post in the coming months.

Looking forward:
Looking at the results, we think we'd like to move the pass mark to 30, instead of 25. A clan could still pass on forum activity alone, but it would require about 250 posts instead of 50, which was just too low for a whole month. You also then didn't have to do anything else. As such, raising the pass mark to 30 and lowering the posts required to get the full 30 points for forums would mean clans need to actually be properly using their boards if they plan on passing with forum activity alone.
We're not planning to change the pass mark just yet, we'd like to keep an eye on how clans are doing first, but it's something that came out of our discussions and we wanted to let you know
https://cache.toribash.com/forum/signaturepics/sigpic3435635_4.gif

Last edited by Erth; Feb 7, 2019 at 08:07 AM.. Reason: Miscommunications
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