Toribash
Here is my honest opinion on the death penalty. I say let them rot, but at the same time as someone above me stated putting them to death feels like the right thing to do. Just like the old saying "an eye for an eye" it basically saying "a life for a life", but putting someone in jail for life is basically taking away their life, they have very little freedom, they can't do the normal stuff they do, can't eat want they want, can't choose what to watch on T.V etc... so yeah putting them in jail is the right thing to do, but it does cost(as people before me have said). Some people like to think the death penalty is a way of punishment, but once again as stated above, it is mercy, compared to rotting in a jail with the thought of the persons face or the guilt and hearing the scream of pain and agony. I feel that the death penalty should be used only in special cases, such as genocide and killings of presidents and government workers etc...
So killing a postman, according to you, is worse than killing a cashier?

Or that a senator's life is above anyone elses?
Omnia Mori
sed Evici Amor
Originally Posted by EpikTh0rn View Post
So killing a postman, according to you, is worse than killing a cashier?

Or that a senator's life is above anyone elses?

Well I guess I should say based on how horrendous the murder is.
Originally Posted by EpikTh0rn View Post
Between l960 to 1968 crime rate increased 11 times.

Since the 90s crime has been on a massive downward trend.


Originally Posted by EpikTh0rn View Post
In my opinion, the death penalty is a mercy. A life in jail is pretty miserable. And keeping prisoners is expensive, getting rid of those that suck up the most government cash is not at all a bad idea.

Actually it is more expensive to execute someone than to keep them alive in prison.
In order to execute someone you first need to put them through 10 years of appeals, which takes a lot of money and a lot of time (10 years of time actually). You think 10 years of food costs a lot? How about 10 years of lawyers. Oh, and that isn't "1 lawyer", because the majority of the time the state has to pay for the lawyer of the convicted too.

Besides that, think of prisons like Angola, completely self sufficient; they don't cost the taxpayer a dime. (Good luck convincing someone on death row to farm food btw)


Originally Posted by EpikTh0rn View Post
We can debate about the monetary worth all day, but in the end it has to do a lot with different morals. The most likely scenario is that the people who like the idea of the death penalty feel it is morally correct to punish someone with death for what they see as an equal crime. The people on the other side think punishment with death is never to be our decision or some other similar argument.

The 'eye for an eye' punishment system has been around for a long time, however you should consider that in most of the civilized world it has been abolished.

Just taking a look at this map will tell you a lot;


Blue -> Abolished for all crimes
Green -> Abolished for crimes not committed in exceptional circumstances (such as crimes committed in time of war)
Orange -> Abolished in practice (ie, its still in the law, but has not been used in over 10 years)
Red -> Legal form of punishment for certain offenses

South Asia, North East Africa, and of course, USA, are the last bastions of killing in the name of justice.

I guess now is the right time to note that nearly all the countries where the death penalty is abolished have lower crime rates than the others. In fact, you can see quite a pattern between the crime levels and the state of capital punishment.
It would be logical to assume that the death penalty has no effect on the crime rates, and if it did, then you could infer that it actually makes people more likely to commit crimes (blaze of glory? nothing to lose? not sure the reason).



I see no reason to have a death penalty. These people do not 'agree' to this, and often there is no way for them to leave the society that has the death penalty. It is unfair for a society to enforce death upon someone who never wanted to be there in the first place.
When I see you, my heart goes DOKI⑨DOKI
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It would certainly give them something to think about, would it not? Lets be realistic here, if the person who does the killing/raping is willing to ruin a life, he should be much less ready to do it, unless he is suicidal. Its like holding an anvil over someones head, quite menacing and guaranteed to reduce the rate of fatal crimes.

Money wise, who needs to lethally inject someone? Shoot them in the face, certainly will cost less money then giving them food their entire lives.

I.E. Tuscon, the kid was 20ishh, thats 50 years of paying for his food and clothes if they don't kill him.

The death penalty certainly has its own "appropriate" uses
Hoss.
Originally Posted by Hyde View Post
It would certainly give them something to think about, would it not? Lets be realistic here, if the person who does the killing/raping is willing to ruin a life, he should be much less ready to do it, unless he is suicidal. Its like holding an anvil over someones head, quite menacing and guaranteed to reduce the rate of fatal crimes.

This penalty will give the criminal something to actually think about like Hyde says. But why should money be a problem? For some people you'll be paying for 30 to 50 years maybe even a lifetime. Why should we pay for these people when we could just simply kill them for their crimes? Sure it could take money but simple shot to the head or any other alternative method. Morally it might be wrong to some people, but that person took the life of someone. "Only kill if you are prepared to be killed"
Unfortunately, the death penalty simply doesn't work.
At best it acts as a deterrent, whether it's better or worse than a life in jail is debatable. However, it has not acted effectively as a deterrent at all. If anything it has increased the level of crime.

For another, condemning someone to death is in fact far more expensive than a life sentence without parole. California alone could save 1 billion over the next five years purely by replacing the death penalty with a life sentence. http://www.deathpenalty.org/article.php?id=42

Secondly, I'd like to bring in a point that many others may have missed. Despite the slow and expensive process, the inmates on death row are eventually executed. If later evidence or testimony comes forward, it will certainly be too late for the convicted. In other words, there is a smaller chance that death row inmates will be exonerated or deemed innocent, and yet they have the greatest possible punishment.

By the way, about the part in the first post about the crime rate increasing x11 in the 60's, that probably has a lot more to do with the war on drugs than anything else. Gorman is correct.

The only remaining reason, then, to have a death penalty, is that criminals deserve the death penalty. However, I ask you: would you rather immediately leave this world, or spend the rest of your life in it doing absolutely nothing and/or experiencing the horrors of prison? The choice is not easy, and it's certainly hard to objectively pick one of the choices as better or worse.

Originally Posted by Hyde View Post
It would certainly give them something to think about, would it not? Lets be realistic here, if the person who does the killing/raping is willing to ruin a life, he should be much less ready to do it, unless he is suicidal. Its like holding an anvil over someones head, quite menacing and guaranteed to reduce the rate of fatal crimes.

Money wise, who needs to lethally inject someone? Shoot them in the face, certainly will cost less money then giving them food their entire lives.

I.E. Tuscon, the kid was 20ishh, thats 50 years of paying for his food and clothes if they don't kill him.

The death penalty certainly has its own "appropriate" uses

Well no, that's the problem. You think it would be, but a life sentence is almost as heavy an anvil as the death penalty is.
As to the "money wise," there's several misconceptions in that statement. The first is that you think that lethal injections are the primary cost. This is not true. Providing inmate's health-care, living expenses, and the trial itself are all more expensive than lethal injections. There is also the issue of "just shoot them, bro." Murderers get trials too, many of them more than one. There's a lot of red tape and costs involved with sentencing someone to die.
Visit the link I post earlier, it gives a full rundown of how much the U.S., or at least California, would save if the death penalty was removed.
Last edited by Boredpayne; Jan 12, 2011 at 02:30 AM.
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Hey look more than two lines.
Nope...
The death penalty is nothing more than evolution from hanging in a more civilized way?.lol

It will always be around because of democracy.
The greek word for mob-'demo' greek for rule-'cracy' "mob-rule."
The mob would rather see a rapist/criminal get the death penalty than put in jail there for it will always be around.



Nice to see that you made absolutely no attempt to read the thread Hyde.
Originally Posted by Hyde View Post
It would certainly give them something to think about, would it not? Lets be realistic here, if the person who does the killing/raping is willing to ruin a life, he should be much less ready to do it, unless he is suicidal. Its like holding an anvil over someones head, quite menacing and guaranteed to reduce the rate of fatal crimes.

Originally Posted by Gorman
I guess now is the right time to note that nearly all the countries where the death penalty is abolished have lower crime rates than the others. In fact, you can see quite a pattern between the crime levels and the state of capital punishment.
It would be logical to assume that the death penalty has no effect on the crime rates, and if it did, then you could infer that it actually makes people more likely to commit crimes (blaze of glory? nothing to lose? not sure the reason).

Once again, there is no proof that capital punishment works.
Even in the middle ages where they would put someone in a gibbet and leave them there to rot in the town square where everyone could see, people still committed crimes.
People who commit crimes don't care about this kind of consequence.


Originally Posted by Hyde View Post
Money wise, who needs to lethally inject someone? Shoot them in the face, certainly will cost less money then giving them food their entire lives.

I.E. Tuscon, the kid was 20ishh, thats 50 years of paying for his food and clothes if they don't kill him.

Originally Posted by Gorman
Actually it is more expensive to execute someone than to keep them alive in prison.
In order to execute someone you first need to put them through 10 years of appeals, which takes a lot of money and a lot of time (10 years of time actually). You think 10 years of food costs a lot? How about 10 years of lawyers. Oh, and that isn't "1 lawyer", because the majority of the time the state has to pay for the lawyer of the convicted too.

Besides that, think of prisons like Angola, completely self sufficient; they don't cost the taxpayer a dime. (Good luck convincing someone on death row to farm food btw)

tl;dr: It is cheaper to keep people alive, this has been proven so many times its not even funny.
When I see you, my heart goes DOKI⑨DOKI
Fish: "Gorman has been chosen for admin. After a lengthy discussion we've all decided that Gorman is the best choice for the next admin."
There is no reason for a death penalty. As said in then article murder is done in the heat of passion which shows that the person that took that life did so with out thinking. There for should not deserve to be killed. A life sentence is fine enough.