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Old Jun 27, 2018 Original Post  
Creati0n
 
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 5,496



Adjustments to the Toricredits board
Good afternoon everyone,

After another bout of lengthy discussion and in-depth planning behind-the-scenes the Market Squad has made two important new additions to the Toricredits board functions and policy.


What are these changes?


Functionality improvement.
.
  • Once a thread has been posted for five days in the Toricredits board the thread is closed and moved to a dump board.

This additional function has been added so that the team can monitor TC sources that our sellers receive on a regular basis.

Policy addition.
.
  • VERIFIED TC SELLERS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO SELL TORICREDITS ON BEHALF OF OTHER USERS.

The Market Squad will no longer allow Verified TC Sellers to act as a middleman service for users who aren't verified (or even those who are verified).

If anyone has any questions or concerns, feel free to post here or directly contact a member of the team found on this list.

Happy marketing guys!
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Old Jun 29, 2018   #21
w0t
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You shouldn't scam in the first place. Not once in 6 months.

Yeah but to say everyone should remain absolutely perfect in a community like this is a bit much, people who have the most TC as of right now seem to come from a dueling background where scamming is the most common. In a perfect world, we'd implement better security measures to ensure duel scamming at the very least is less of an issue, there should be no reason we don't have proper ways to duel items, we should have a way to prove ownership of art pieces as well as use them for dueling purposes, and again in a perfect world we'd have ways to duel USD where Nabi takes a small percentage and it's a win-win situation for both parties.

Another solution could be a point system, where let's say 3 points is the threshold that removes your ability to become a verified seller for a certain duration. Each possible way of scamming carrying a different point value, then this way you can punish the real problems for even longer and I personally don't see any flaws with this system other than "No one should ever scam" and to that all I can say everyone makes mistakes, first offenders should be treated the same as repeat offenders but this is broken down to an opinionated debate where there is no winner other that whoever actually makes the rules, so basically this is all pointless and you'll do whatever you want in the end.


That's exactly what happened before

Then this is just a bad job on the staffs part, absolutely no excuse for why this wasn't prevented, understaffed/too busy/well covered up, does not matter. If you're understaffed then start a recruiting drive and you solved both of the first issues if it was well covered up then what are you guys actually doing in a day because if someone was able to make millions from scamming without a single report something's off then.
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Old Jun 29, 2018   #22
cocacobra
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Why are you still arguing about scamming? If you scam people for ingame currency why on earth should anybody trust you to not scam with real money? Like I agree with you for the most part w0t but be reasonable.
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Old Jun 29, 2018   #23
w0t
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How is saying not all scams are the same unreasonable? A decap rig and paypal fraud shouldnt be treated the same, punishments need their own individual weight based off factors such as number of offenses and what kind of offense. I don't believe that's too unreasonable and I am in no way supporting scamming I just don't think someone that's new and rigged a decap in a public tourney server with a friend should be treated the same as someone like bravo who is a known paypal scammer. The new guy should be punished for a duration of less than 6 months whereas bravo should never have the chance to sell TC.
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Old Jun 29, 2018   #24
JayBOOSTgg
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not even that alone, being based off of just being as a ZT user doesn't allow you to sell tc or let alone be verified to sell tc which is stupid in my opinion, i'm not saying about me but about other ZT users who haven't scammed probably and just done other dumb shit and got put on the ZT list won't be allowed to sell any of their tc cause of this dumb rule
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Old Jun 29, 2018   #25
@Sigma
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ZT is pretty serious. You don't just "do stupid stuff" to get onto ZT.
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Old Jun 29, 2018   #26
JayBOOSTgg
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yes you do, such as spamming said words in servers, basically being a nuisance and shit but what if you don't and ever scammed in your life, pretty stupid if you're trying to sell tc and they restrict you from doing that because of something you did in the past and now you're trying to make up for it
and ask yourself this you people are saying this game isnt meant to be this and such, then what is this game really supposed to be with no indication or direction where this is going?

Last edited by JayBOOSTgg; Jun 29, 2018 at 07:05 PM..
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Old Jun 29, 2018   #27
@Sigma
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I think that if you have been on ZT, you should have to go through a trial period before hand where you only can sell a restricted amount at a time.
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Old Jun 29, 2018   #28
Shmevin
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I can't believe I took the time write all this out.

Originally Posted by Bless View Post
At the end of the day, everyone is going to find a way around it if they are motivated enough to do so, and anyone that is making money out of a videogame is, and will, be motivated enough to do so.

These changes are just temporary plugs to annoy people further, what is really the point in them- other than to tick boxes and say ‘yeah we’ve addressed that now’ so you can leave it to wither away again. Adding more ways of making TC selling harder will just make the work-arounds more dodgy and damaging, you’re asking for your own problems here.

Honestly, this is a very good point. It is quite easy for any user to hide that they are selling TC on behalf of another user by saying it was a gift, paying back a loan, won it in a duel, or was paying for art. No one would think twice if I said that the TC I am selling for someone was "won in a duel." This encourages more backdoor deals and lying to staff because staff are no longer working in the best interest of the average user.
Originally Posted by sir View Post
Hilarious how even in one of the best Market-related decisions people still manage to find absolutely weird negative sides.

Gonna break some things up:

1. Yeah, copy-pasting your earlier thread that you still can see in an archive board is definitely a heavy burden. Smh market squad ruining it!!!

2. That's literally the reason why we have verified sellers. Game staff check their sources of TC to ensure that regular users do not have to. Better for those who want to buy TC, better for those who want to sell TC because there's no way someone with shady TC starts selling at super low rates.

3. All you have to do to get verified is not be a scammer, have TC which source you can explain and be able to read and follow rules. Super hard, how could we come up with that. Right?

4. Player A gets verified, Player B doesn't because they get TC through betting rigs, decapprize rigs, scamming people and sometimes abusing shop exploits. Player B sends TC to Player A to sell, who don't get an additional check because they're assumed to be "clean", but then someone reports Player B who gets banned - and we need to take out all the TC they managed to sell through Player A. Yeah, that sure benefits the community. How could we even decide to prohibit that?




Toribash still has and will have an open market, but Market Squad are going to keep making sure it's safe for use for any player and that malicious users get restrictions depending on their actions and have less ways to scam others.

1. This was probably my weakest point, which is why I got it out of the way first, and you choose to respond so sarcastically and arrogantly. You're right, remaking a thread and copy-pasting the previous OP is not is not hard work on its own. However, this does not account for the possibility of a thread being deleted without warning, the seller is not able sell until a new thread is made, and that it could take up to a day for their thread to be approved by a moderator. Simply put, it brings business to a halt for that user.

2. That "someone shady" shouldn't have been able to get verified status to begin with. I agree with what you're saying, but it doesn't respond to the point I was trying to make. I agree with cocacobra's statement in this regard. How old a thread is and how many posts it has functions like a rating system. It shows that they have been around for a while, made dozens of successful transactions, and can be trusted to provide good service in addition to being trustworthy (as with all verified sellers).

3. You're not wrong! People who have recently scammed or received suspicious TC shouldn't be able to sell! I'm not fighting for the right of scammers to sell illicit TC, I'm fighting for the rights of players who earned their TC fairly, but couldn't or didn't want to sell their own TC (not verified, too much of a hassle, no experience, not enough time). Surely there isn't anything wrong with this, as multiple staff members have done this in the past couple months for users that are still on ZT.

4. I see nothing wrong with this. Player B should have been caught for scamming/rigging before the TC was put up for sale. The TC isn't assumed to be clean either because each thread requires moderator approval on top of each user being monitored for the source of the TC they are selling (if this isn't the case and MS don't check, then why did Creati0n make out moderating this board to be such hard work?). Finally, Player A should be punished for either 1.) ignorance of the person they are selling on behalf of or the source of the TC or 2.) willingness to launder illegal TC.

Originally Posted by w0t View Post
You're seriously just stretching to ensure people who have scammed 1 time in 6 months(?) don't sell TC and then treating it like there's a community of people who just make millions of TC just off scamming when it's not that all. Both of these new policies are useless.

Yeah, I don't believe that users selling TC on behalf of scammers and exploiters is as big of a problem or as common as they are making it out to be. It's certainly easy enough to take care of on a case-to-case basis, since Market Squad are actively monitoring how users are obtaining TC anyways.

Originally Posted by w0t View Post
You shouldn't scam in the first place. Not once in 6 months.

1. Yeah but to say everyone should remain absolutely perfect in a community like this is a bit much, people who have the most TC as of right now seem to come from a dueling background where scamming is the most common. In a perfect world, we'd implement better security measures to ensure duel scamming at the very least is less of an issue, there should be no reason we don't have proper ways to duel items, we should have a way to prove ownership of art pieces as well as use them for dueling purposes, and again in a perfect world we'd have ways to duel USD where Nabi takes a small percentage and it's a win-win situation for both parties.

2. Another solution could be a point system, where let's say 3 points is the threshold that removes your ability to become a verified seller for a certain duration. Each possible way of scamming carrying a different point value, then this way you can punish the real problems for even longer and I personally don't see any flaws with this system other than "No one should ever scam" and to that all I can say everyone makes mistakes, first offenders should be treated the same as repeat offenders but this is broken down to an opinionated debate where there is no winner other that whoever actually makes the rules, so basically this is all pointless and you'll do whatever you want in the end.

1. In a perfect world yeah that would be nice, but it's not worth doing considering the dueling community is so small, and efforts are better spent elsewhere. I believe the current system is good enough considering there was once a time where you were not given compensation for scams in best of 5 or first to 3 duels, and they recently started banning those who scam in duels involving unsupported payments.

2. For the purpose of punishment not all scams should be treated with an equal punishment, you're correct in that regard. However, for the purpose of selling TC and becoming a verified seller I do believe different types of scams should be treated equally because it brings into question the means of they obtained that TC, as well as their willingness to conduct cash trades without scamming. Instead of a point system, perhaps it would be more fair if the time a user is not allowed to sell TC is a multiple of how long their scam related ban was? Such as a multiple of 3x, someone who was banned for a month is not allowed to sell for three months following.

None of this really relates to the changes that were made though. I have an opinion and insight on the points you brought up which is why I responded to them, but the main point I'm trying to make is that these changes make it more difficult for normal users to sell TC, and doesn't actually effectively stop verified sellers from selling TC for others. Also if someone scammed or exploited to get TC, they should be caught BEFORE a thread is made trying to sell their TC.
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Old Jun 29, 2018   #29
Ele
 
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Originally Posted by Creati0n View Post
Between four people (three who actively moderate), yeah, it’s unreasonably difficult to monitor on top of our other duties – so we’re making you copy/paste an OP every five days.

If you want us to consider removing the function maybe you should apply and volunteer to do the work yourself!

Originally Posted by Shmevin View Post
put me in coach. I'd gladly sacrifice literally a couple minutes of my time each day to moderate one of the smallest and least busiest sub-forums if it means other users could have the freedom to provide the service of selling TC on behalf of others or the ability establish a reputation by means of a longstanding thread/shop.

Originally Posted by sir
wall of shit

Originally Posted by Shmevin
wall of shit response

Solution here is pretttttty obvious.

@sir
Originally Posted by sir
Just keep in mind that arguing usually involves finding compromise between two opposing opinions

Just keep that in mind sir.
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