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Old Mar 3, 2016 Original Post  
hanz0
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Matchmaking feedback thread
With 5.0 we've added a new matchmaking feature for more competitive play. The system is still very much in development and I'd like to get community feedback on how we can make it better.

Here are a couple categories of things that have been brought up, to get the conversation started (Feel free to add new things, though):
  • Season length - currently set to 1 month, suggested 3
  • # of games played - currently BO3
  • Calculating global/category rank - currently elo is by mods and I think global rank is an average
  • Appropriate penalty for leaving matchmaking games

Below I'll try to compile the suggestions I receive:
  • Custom win/loss icons (In place of the current x/o)
  • Change selection icons to empty square / checkbox
  • Match history
  • Better notification/confirmation for matchmake

Known issues:
  • Elo penalty is applied to both users - should be fixed in next patch
  • Some users reporting that matchmaking isn't properly connecting them to a private room, instead moving them to a lobby with multiple players queued
  • Matchmaking seems to be selecting grappling regardless of category(s) selected
  • Matchmaking is not pausing while playing a fight
  • Matchmaking sometimes skips replay and goes straight to next fight
  • Grab status persisting between matchmaking fights, even if mod changes to one without grab

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Last edited by hanz0; Mar 29, 2016 at 06:44 PM..
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Old Mar 4, 2016   #21
hanz0
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Originally Posted by Gio View Post
Also, you could add a closing button to the match making window, I spent like 2 mins trying to minimize it until I realized I had to drag it down all the way.

Clicking anywhere on the matchmaking window closes it. I agree that a minimize button would be rather more intuitive.

Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
With the release of matchmaking, we shouldn't have public ranked servers anymore. One of the largest appeals to having forced MM for rank was the inability to "target" your opponents intelligently / farm them.

I understand MM is acting a little glitchy right now, but once that's fixed we should remove Ranked Kicking, Striking, and Grappling and make rank exclusively acquired in matchmaking.

Yeah, for the moment the priority is getting matchmaking to a place where it's reasonably functioning. I'll note the suggestion though.

Originally Posted by Powas View Post
Yeah, guy quits, you get the elo penalty. pretty annoying tbqh fam
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Noted.

Originally Posted by panttersin View Post
The mod Reken.tbm seems like a dysfunctional mod with very little testing behind it. I'd like to hear some actual arguments why it's added.
Same goes for kickboxing. The kicking mods are absolute garbage atm.
Erth's "taido2 is a good mod because I say it is" doesn't really cut it.
I can list reasons why these are not good mods, but before that, someone needs to tell us why these are mods that should be in the competitive list.
Other than that, I'm really liking the new update. Thank you for it!

Also checked kicking only, got grappling like 3 times.
Apparently it doesnt matter what you check, youll just get whatever.

I'm not 100% clear on the decisionmaking process behind the mods selected for each category, but I've been told that there's a system in the works for us to manage the categories. I've noted the issue with category selection and passed it on.

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Old Mar 4, 2016   #22
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location
could it be moved the menu instead leaving an irritating red M down by my messages, just wondering if possible. Also possible have a way to disable it all together in settings. Because i logged on and tried it and it took forever, so i naturally searched for my own game and in the middle of my fight (1.5hrs later) i was thrown into another match.
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Old Mar 4, 2016   #23
hanz0
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Originally Posted by Icon View Post
could it be moved the menu instead leaving an irritating red M down by my messages, just wondering if possible. Also possible have a way to disable it all together in settings. Because i logged on and tried it and it took forever, so i naturally searched for my own game and in the middle of my fight (1.5hrs later) i was thrown into another match.

So matchmaking is supposed to pause while you're playing a game and only search while you're specced or queued. I've gotten a couple reports now of people being pulled out midmatch and apologize for that. Dev's been notified.

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Old Mar 4, 2016   #24
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1. Move sumore to either kicking or striking and add swfixed instead to take its place in grappling. I don't know if people want to keep sumore in general just based on what I've heard, though personally I don't like it either.

2. Have 5 mods for each group if it's a BO3 and have both players veto 1 mod. Lots of competitive games have the ban system like League of Legends with 3 champion bans per team, Starcraft with map vetos, Hearthstone (in competitive) with deck bans, and CS:GO (in competitive) with map vetos. If it's going to be a BO5 in the future then have 7 mods total to choose from instead.

3. Placement matches would also be good. It's healthier to have your first few games be really swingy with MMR/elo because it prevents the really good players who are starting ranked out from having to play against complete beginners. It also prevents them from having to grind really hard just because they need to play through an elo bracket they don't belong in.
So for example if you win your first 10 sets then you should gain way more elo from those 10 than if you go 5/5 in placements and THEN win 10 games.

4. Make elo more swingy in general as well. Winning one set of games (after placements) should be worth like 10 or so elo instead of the 1/2/3 it is now, and placements at like ~30 each. Right now basically everyone I've seen in the last couple years with a rating has been between a 100 elo range which shouldn't be the case because there's barely a noticeable difference in ratings from one player to another. League of Legends for example had the default be 1200 elo, placement games around 50 and each win/loss was worth around 17-20 elo which worked really well. Pros were 2200-2400, above average people around 1400-1900, and the general population was placed 1100-1300. As of right now I'd guess only a handful of people would even break 1700 when the starting point is 1600, which is barely any difference at all.

5. Lastly, in my opinion there should be a match history, leaderboard and win/loss record somewhere. I doubt that would be implemented into the actual game itself so I guess somewhere on your profile here on the website.
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Old Mar 4, 2016   #25
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Matchmaking is not working in the sense that it just puts you into a random category regardless of what you select. (Almost always Grappling)

And, why is Sumo_re in the grappling category?

Ideas:
Make ranks only achieved through matchmaking.
Improve the advertisement of this feature. (Make everyone aware this is important aspect of toribash)
Actually test it before releasing... (Kappa)
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Old Mar 4, 2016   #26
SmallBowl
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Originally Posted by panttersin View Post
The mod Reken.tbm seems like a dysfunctional mod with very little testing behind it. I'd like to hear some actual arguments why it's added.
Same goes for kickboxing. The kicking mods are absolute garbage atm.
Erth's "taido2 is a good mod because I say it is" doesn't really cut it.
I can list reasons why these are not good mods, but before that, someone needs to tell us why these are mods that should be in the competitive list.
Other than that, I'm really liking the new update. Thank you for it!

Also checked kicking only, got grappling like 3 times.
Apparently it doesnt matter what you check, youll just get whatever.

I cant answer for all of these mods (kickboxing I dont support being there for example), but the thinking behind reken is that it is a promising mod made by a good modmaker for this kind of mod which doesnt seem to have any current issues as far as I am aware. Since there will be teething problems and many edits before the matchmaking system is how it will be in the end it seems perfectly sensible to test out what mods are ideal for the system.

What problem do you have with reken? Currently all youve provided is "I dont like it, heres a super vague reason which could mean anything" rather than anything specific or constructive.

Also although it may or may not be a glitch (idk) I think its better that its giving you mods of any category because then you have to be good at all mods which is what a ranking system should check.

Originally Posted by PACKET View Post
Matchmaking is not working in the sense that it just puts you into a random category regardless of what you select. (Almost always Grappling)

And, why is Sumo_re in the grappling category?

Ideas:
Make ranks only achieved through matchmaking.
Improve the advertisement of this feature. (Make everyone aware this is important aspect of toribash)
Actually test it before releasing... (Kappa)

Sumore fits into the same group as reken in terms of why it is there. It is in the grappling category because it is a grappling mod - you grapple in it.




my biggest issue is that mod selection is very monotonous and does not appear to be random / distributive at all which it really should be
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Last edited by SmallBowl; Mar 4, 2016 at 06:50 PM..
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Old Mar 4, 2016   #27
PACKET
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You don't grapple in it. It mainly consists of balance and pushing.

Stop trying to be a smart ass. When you say grapple people think of mods with grab such as Aikido variants.
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Old Mar 4, 2016   #28
SmallBowl
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Originally Posted by PACKET View Post
You don't grapple in it. It mainly consists of balance and pushing.

Stop trying to be a smart ass. When you say grapple people think of mods with grab such as Aikido variants.

It consists of holding people with your hands and pushing them to the ground -> grappling

It fits far better in that category than any of the others. I was not being a smart ass at all, Im just stating the way it is.
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Old Mar 4, 2016   #29
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Originally Posted by SmallBowl View Post
It consists of holding people with your hands and pushing them to the ground -> grappling

It fits far better in that category than any of the others. I was not being a smart ass at all, Im just stating the way it is.

TBF sumore_V is modded so that the toris are too powerful to get a hold of properly. Older sumores are grappling focused but V is too fast and powerfull to make it a proper grappling mod.


The reason why I think reken is not a good kicking mod is;

1. So fast and such a high gravity that feet first handpushing seems to be the best way, AKA lenshu/rk-mma

2. The speed and the eg creates a situation where blocking isnt favourable by default and is extremely situational and luck based.
The more speed the tori has, the less control the opponent has to block.

3. Its not tested.

Last edited by panttersin; Mar 4, 2016 at 07:09 PM..
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Old Mar 4, 2016   #30
SmallBowl
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in the current sumore my matches are usually won through hooking of legs/groin so Im not sure I entirely agree with you there. However I do concede that the older sumore mods were certainly more grappling focused. I maintain that grappling is the best place for it though.

1. Im not completely sure what you mean by feet first handpushing so I cant comment, I would like to see an example of what you mean.

2. I see what you mean, however as a result of the ed I have only seen 1 of many snapkicks in this mod result in a win, the speed does however disadvantage all out defense, which makes the games more attacking based and more interesting to play. Personally I can see how this could be viewed as an issue however within an undeniably mediocre sample size of my matches in this mod and its predecessor/alpha version of the mod (rekbo) it has been very consistent in terms of who won the match. E.g fallu was far better than me at the mod and won 7/8 games, whereas against Wizard (sorry Wizard) I went 5/0 iirc, Wizard can confirm or correct this score, but he will certainly tell you that it was consistent. Of course these are not the only games Ive played but they are the only times I have played a large-ish amount of games against the same player that I can remember

3. It is relatively untested but has been tested in the form of rekbo, however as mentioned above it is in the matchmaking system to be tested, as it was always clear there would be teething problems. The way I see this current period is as a testing of the matchmaking system and all its parts, so it is being tested by the community actively now and its therefore good to see it is being noticed and discussed.
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Last edited by SmallBowl; Mar 4, 2016 at 07:26 PM..
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