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Old 3 Weeks Ago Original Post  
+Ele
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Posts: 2,210
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Classify Wibbles as a non-public space
Classify Wibbles as a non-public space so we can say 'nigga' in it.

Right now the rules aren't consistent with what is and isn't a public space. Clan boards are deemed private spaces and yet Wibbles isn't, even though you NEED TO LOGIN to even view it!

'Nigga' in Wibbles should be acceptable just as 'nigga' in clan boards is currently. If 'prospective partners' aren't phased by the use of 'nigga' in clan boards, why would they phased by 'nigga' in a board they can't even see?
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #11
Reta
 
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Yeah and some people find it fun to Scam people or dox you, why not just allow that too, I mean some people find it fun right ?

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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #12
Grohenbird
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Originally Posted by Arctic View Post
hahaha yeah cause we all know you have been moderating that for a year
i don't mind if people are having harmless fun, i only care if they are being so bad they end up ruining other users' experience, which is something that has been happening since wibbles was implemented.because it is? and you didnt even provide a counterargument?? and that was not even my only point lol oh boy here we go again

its like giving market squad to a user that was permanently banned for duel scamming yesterday. its a little bit more than obvious that its a dumb idea and will not work, but, hey, it doesnt hurt to try!

and if you are just gonna nitpick at my analogy, here is an actual example: we have clan boards/threads that are filled with slurs, racist jokes etc. people that browse those threads are aware that they will find that kind of content in them, since users manage their own clans. they create their clans and pretty much decide whats acceptable to post and what is not (there are global/CD rules anyway blah blah you know what i mean) in their threads. now, wibbles is a public board created, managed and moderated by the staff, so it should be held to a certain standard, even though those barely exist in a shitposting board. we just try to apply global rules and keep people from being complete idiots.

i really believe the LAST thing we need in wibbles is a fuckton of threads about the absolxDtely epik word niga!!

as i said before: "why are words like 'nigga' so important for your toribash forum(TM) experience? its not even like theres a fun factor or anything at all, it's just some kind of Oh Let's Do This Because It's Against The Rules XD thing" and "there are absolutely no pros to this suggestion, nothing that will actually make wibbles (aka hell) or the community slightly better"

Could you please stick to actual arguments, rather than ridiculing Ele and using completely unrelated examples as evidence? If you want to be an ass, go be an ass in wibbles. Stay civil here. If you don't like me talking down on you, feel free to ask for my removal. I will not put up with you insulting the users of this board just because you disagree.

I believe you're entitled to your opinion, and I agree that there are quite a few very stupid members in the community, but people being stupid is not an excuse for restricting free speech to people. If they are using a word in a bigoted and rude manner, you are free to punish them as such. You as a moderator are entitled to that judgment. As I am fully aware the word "nigger" is very much a terrible word to utter to someone,and I agree that hate speech shouldn't be allowed, context is everything. That has been Ele's argument for quite a while, and as a mediator I have to say his point is perfectly valid.

As I'm sure you well know, a few people favoring an idea is not the same thing as an idea being implemented. I know for a fact that this will not in the near future be implemented at all, but it is worth at least recognizing the relevant points made (and I think you're very well smart enough to know what those points are without me directing them at you).

As for you, Ele, I understand your stance is that the fact that this is even an issue is laughable, but please stick to professional language on subjects with such clear sides already laid out. Whether I agree with you or not, warming up someone to an idea they are already against is not an easy task, and responding so leniantly to points that have merit will not benefit anyone.

I don't mean to insult with this message by any means, but I would rather this discussion be made with logical reasoning and respect than whatever forms this subject has been treated with in the past. From this point onward, any post pertaining to this within this board will be held up to this standard and if not met will be deleted. I hope you both can understand my reasoning for this.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #13
+Ele
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Originally Posted by Reta View Post
Yeah and some people find it fun to Scam people or dox you, why not just allow that too, I mean some people find it fun right ?

Yeah it's all relative, but I think we can probably agree that non-abusive, friendly 'sup niggaa'-ing isn't harmful like scamming/doxing. One is malicious and has actual victims, the other doesn't. We both see the difference in intent and harmful effect between these two actions, I'm sure.

Last edited by Ele; 3 Weeks Ago at 09:20 AM..
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #14
Arctic
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Originally Posted by Ele View Post
Wibbles is meant to be for the community Arctic (we don't want bs censorship when it's not necessary), not for the staff. You have to occasionally do some moderating and delete some guy being racist with 'nigga'? That's your job, you signed up to moderate. That sort of thing is gonna happen whether this rule changes or not. If you're so concerned about the workload we could institute Wibblecop lmods to delete and report global rule breaking stuff there.

Global rules apply in Wibbles yes, but they also still apply in clan boards and we can still use 'nigga' there in non-abusive ways. Clans are held to that global standard, like Wibbles is, but it also allows the use of 'nigga'. I'm sure you don't think clans are more 'toxic' (whatever that means) than Wibbles, right?

As for why change it, fun factor. Guess what, other people have different ideas of fun than you. Some people find it fun to drop the occasional 'sup niggaaaaa'. I know, I know... How toxic!!!

i explained in my previous post why i think clans can be considered a somewhat private space and i dont agree with censoring people in their clan boards like that. i also explained why wibbles is different from CD.

i wouldn't say "fun factor" alone is a good reason to have a subjective rule. that won't happen. if we need to look at context every single time, that will turn everything into a huge mess, where almost every improper use of a slur (what the fuck even) that results in an infraction will be arguable, since you can just interpret context differently. people love being borderline offensive with those things. having an actually objective rule makes everything easier to understand, both for staff and community.

also, we provide a bunch of ways to entertain people and make them have fun: there are events, new ranked stuff, clan boards, wibbles and so on, but the best way to have fun is doing something that the staff is strongly against? really? come on now
Originally Posted by Grohenbird View Post
Could you please stick to actual arguments, rather than ridiculing Ele and using completely unrelated examples as evidence? If you want to be an ass, go be an ass in wibbles. Stay civil here. If you don't like me talking down on you, feel free to ask for my removal. I will not put up with you insulting the users of this board just because you disagree.

?? lol

when did i insult anyone? i might be quite passive aggressive, but i didn't actually insult ele. examples were related to the discussion - read the thread, we were talking about clan discussion x wibbles and i said why i wouldnt like wibbles to be like that. hows it unrelated?
Originally Posted by Grohenbird
As I am fully aware the word "nigger" is very much a terrible word to utter to someone,and I agree that hate speech shouldn't be allowed, context is everything. That has been Ele's argument for quite a while, and as a mediator I have to say his point is perfectly valid.

yeah alright and i disagree
we are not going to have subjective, soft rules. that does not work. im fairly sure this whole slur deal was a subjective rule before, especially because gamemasters punished people that used racist slurs ingame. when it was implemented in the forums, iirc, the rule was still sorta subjective, moderators would consider the context before taking action but that didn't work so well, so we got an objective rule. this might be wrong, so ignore me if it is.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #15
box
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Most of the people posting in clan boards are friends with each other, so it's really unlikely that anyone around there would use it in an offensive context.

Whereas in Wibbles, it would just be used for the sake of using it, and someone might take it the wrong way.

At least that's how I see it.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #16
•SmallBowl
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When the word was completely banned in public spaces this was one of the main arguments and still appears to be an argument now "why is it so important to be able to use the word nigga". But let me ask, why is it so important not to use the word nigga?

Although I dont personally use it, its commonly used as a colloquial term and is primarily used unnoffensively. Although I do of course understand it has offensive connotations and can do as "more harm" than other words, it entirely depends on the context it is used in. This is why I think, and always have thought that the word shouldnt be flat out banned, it should always be about context, if someone is being racist or homophobic of course they should be banned and have their post deleted, but for using a term that can be offensive in a non-offensive manner?? Nah.

Having said the above, in my opinion its all or nothing. Wibbles is a board visible to all users run by toribash staff and visible directly from the front of the forum so it is quintessentially a public space
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Please note, this quote was not taken out of context
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