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Old Sep 2, 2017   #24351
Oracle
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Originally Posted by Smaguris View Post
They are not refunding full price for anything bought before 2017 a.k.a. something that didn't affect your recent purchases. Just think for a second, if you got a full refund for every rune you ever bought some people would end up getting 100k+ blue essence, that's just unbalanced on its own.

Look at it from my perspective as a player who purchased ALL of their runes before 2016. Well before they announce their intent to remove costs for runes.

I dropped a LOT of IP on runes because I knew I needed them to play on a level field against other players. I dropped a LOT of IP on rune pages because I wanted to field specialized runes. Because I spent a lot of IP, it contributed to me spending real money on RP so I could get champions unlocked that I would have normally unlocked via IP. I invested in the runes because I expected them to retain value as an investment, just like how I invested in RP expecting the champions I've purchased to retain value as an investment.

Now I'm being told that my investments in runes are being compensated at below the value I paid. It's because runes were only purchasable with IP and necessary that I got RP to unlock champions I would have unlocked otherwise using IP. So not only am I getting reduced return on my IP investments, but it makes my previous purchases of RP for champions even worse in terms of value. It means that every 975 RP I spent for a 6300 IP champ, because I spent 6300 IP on runes, no longer has a value ratio of 975:6300, but a ratio as low as 975:900. Essentially, this "compensation" made some of my RP purchases a worse than 1:1 ratio to IP.

Would that make you mad? Because that makes me REALLY mad. The only way this becomes even remotely fine is if the BE from runes and what not gets added before the multiplier is applied.
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Old Sep 2, 2017   #24352
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I dont see how purchesing runes made it nessesary to buy rp for champions. Rp is always an option, you would have just had to grind more. It makes it quicker, if youre on a time restraint and dont want to wait a week to get, idk, jayce or some shit. But its always a option.
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Old Sep 2, 2017   #24353
Oracle
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Originally Posted by RAWWRH View Post
I dont see how purchesing runes made it nessesary to buy rp for champions. Rp is always an option, you would have just had to grind more. It makes it quicker, if youre on a time restraint and dont want to wait a week to get, idk, jayce or some shit. But its always a option.

That's why I said contributed. It didn't necessitate it, but it encouraged the action.


Edit: Lemme rephrase it so it illustrates why it encouraged it.

Let's assume I'm unlocking champions in a world were runes don't cost anything, and a world where runes cost what they did. In a world where runes cost nothing, I would have just bought the champion and that's that. No need to purchase RP whatsoever. In a world where runes cost something, I buy runes, or I buy champions. Runes can only be bought with IP, while champs can be bought with RP or IP. I can choose to just grind longer, but the option to purchase RP exists, and is presented as a valid option when you're spending IP to make your rune collection.

Now these two situations will exist separated by time. People who join later are never subjected to this same conundrum, and those who have been subjected to it are being shafted by compensation decisions. Most companies would choose the option that rewards the people who have been around longer, but Riot decided to choose an option that can punish a player who has been around longer. The same amount of time invested by me, compared to somebody who joins after runes are free, will have a greater return for the newer player than for me as a player who's been around since Kennen's release (back in 2010). Furthermore, players who have invested into more runes and more pages are shafted harder than players that invested less. Essentially, Riot chose a compensation method that hits harder those who've invested more into their game.
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Last edited by Oracle; Sep 2, 2017 at 09:00 PM..
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Old Sep 2, 2017   #24354
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I understood what you said, but you flip flopped between it just contributing to it being a nessesity.


Either way, riots not at fault for your spending real money to buy champions. Should be glad they are willing to refund any of the ip (be) to the players, since things change value rather consistantly in online games.

Its like being upset that you buy a 975 rp champion that later that year whent down 880. You choose to purches things at the current value because you want them in that moment.

I mean, its whatever. People will be upset for like a week, then just deal with it. I appreciate the lower costing runes, though. Itlll let people focus on skill more then owning the right runes whenever you switch a champion type.

Though, I can see it now, bronze players copying lcs players rune pages like they do items and tactics.
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Old Sep 2, 2017   #24355
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Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
Because I spent a lot of IP, it contributed to me spending real money on RP so I could get champions unlocked that I would have normally unlocked via IP.

Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
In a world where runes cost nothing, I would have just bought the champion and that's that. No need to purchase RP whatsoever. In a world where runes cost something, I buy runes, or I buy champions. Runes can only be bought with IP, while champs can be bought with RP or IP. I can choose to just grind longer, but the option to purchase RP exists, and is presented as a valid option when you're spending IP to make your rune collection.

I didn't flip flop. The lack of an option is a lack of necessity by definition, but the presence of an option doesn't create necessity. I state that by making runes function as an IP vacuum, it creates a greater incentive to spend RP on champions because you cannot spend RP on runes, so you allocate any IP you get on runes first, champions second. I never mentioned anywhere that it's a necessity to spend.

Furthermore, they've provided refunds before on changed content that was perfectly reasonable, and had more actual value. Back when they repriced a couple 1920 RP and 1350 RP skins, they refunded the full change of cost in RP. Actual paid currency. They weren't required to do that either, but they did anyways. They gave away a premium currency doing that. The fact that they aren't willing to provide a full refund on their currency which has no real world value is a pretty big step backwards, and not at all what I expect from them as a company.

Riot IS at fault for how they decide to announce their compensation. They say they're going beyond a full refund, then present a compensation plan that provides less than a full refund. That's either bad marketing, or duplicitous marketing. Both are unacceptable for a company of their size.


They literally lose nothing from providing a full refund and they have precedent for providing full refunds for real life currency. Yet they chose partial refund for an imaginary currency, then tried to sell it as better than full refund. That by itself is maddening. Let alone any value I feel I've lost, that's just a bad way to treat your player base.
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Old Sep 3, 2017   #24356
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Raka an me did it bois.

Small steps, small steps.

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Old Sep 3, 2017   #24357
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Old Sep 3, 2017   #24358
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Ayyy Reta you don did it! Also, apparently converting your IP into champion shards is mathematically likely to increase your total return on investment by 8%. So if you're looking to optimize your account by now, maybe read into that.
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Old Sep 4, 2017   #24359
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Ah, so it does check out? When I was reading the patch notes, I saw that they would multiply the value of our current BE by like 600% and that IP would be converted by a 1:1 ratio. So I thought that maybe buying Champion Shards and dusting them could basically increase the amount of total BE I would be getting. 8% isn't as good as I would've hoped but that's an increase nonetheless.
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Old Sep 4, 2017   #24360
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It's technically luck based, but the huge amount of 6300 priced champions make or break you. In the long run, the expected outcome considering probabilities is 8%
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