Ranking
View Poll Results: forcing improv and comebacks as a standard was good or bad idea?
yes
21 Votes / 55.26%
no
17 Votes / 44.74%
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll
View Poll Results

This almost has nothing to do with what we argued about.

Improv isn't superior to openers if you're looking to win the game. It should be obvious that if you're a good player that spending 30 minutes on your first 3 turns, you'll have the best most adaptive option compared to 20 seconds a turn.

Of course encouraging comebacks is a good idea.


What you wanted has nothing to do with any of that. What you want is wushu tournaments to not be played in wushu. Your solution was an instagib cube arena that confines players. It defeats many of the purposes of wushu, it makes it nothing like the balanced mod we've played for 7 years now, and it's all because you "don't like running".

If you don't like running period, don't play in situations where it will happen, but don't force that onto others. If winning doesn't matter to you, then stop caring about losing from a run. As if running is some big deal... Which it isn't.

Bottom line: I'll be playing wushu. If wushu players want to compete in wushu against me, that sounds awesome. We will play wushu as wushu players. If you want to make something new, play it with people. It's not wushu, and it shouldn't be the official tournament mod. I don't appreciate you going to people requesting there not be wushu tournaments.
Last edited by Bodhisattva; Nov 7, 2013 at 11:37 PM.
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Creati0n says: still my favorite. <3
I sacrificed my firstborn for this great human being to join (M) ~R
Just Use Thunder!
Improv: yes and no
A newbie can learn a lot from openers, whereas an 'experienced' player hits a curb after a certain point.
As an answer; no, improv. isn't always the best idea. Having something which pushes away the learning, and forces certain views upon those wishing to join, isn't the best idea.
'Stupid' openers =/= fun/supposed fairplay, hence shouldn't be welcome as a primary form of gameplay.

Comebacks: = "fairplay"
Differentiating winning from sportsmanship/fun.
Improv: Doesn't really matter, if they use an opener or not they will still end up in a position where they need to setup in order to do their next move, if you're against someone that you know will do an opener or is going to do rush move, go backwards. Easiest solution, just go backwards.

Comebacks: Yeah, it's fairplay, plus it gets a little boring if you get points in the first few frames and just tripod or stop yourself from DQing, I'd rather comeback and beat up the other opponent since this is Multiplayer not Singleplayer, more fun since it's a challenge thinking about what your opponent will do next and how hard you can attack him and destroy him (sorry if I offended you Uke, you are the greatest ever).
Originally Posted by DrHax View Post
This almost has nothing to do with what we argued about.

Improv isn't superior to openers if you're looking to win the game. It should be obvious that if you're a good player that spending 30 minutes on your first 3 turns, you'll have the best most adaptive option compared to 20 seconds a turn.

Of course encouraging comebacks is a good idea.


What you wanted has nothing to do with any of that. What you want is wushu tournaments to not be played in wushu. Your solution was an instagib cube arena that confines players. It defeats many of the purposes of wushu, it makes it nothing like the balanced mod we've played for 7 years now, and it's all because you "don't like running".

If you don't like running period, don't play in situations where it will happen, but don't force that onto others. If winning doesn't matter to you, then stop caring about losing from a run. As if running is some big deal... Which it isn't.

Bottom line: I'll be playing wushu. If wushu players want to compete in wushu against me, that sounds awesome. We will play wushu as wushu players. If you want to make something new, play it with people. It's not wushu, and it shouldn't be the official tournament mod. I don't appreciate you going to people requesting there not be wushu tournaments.

tl;dr

sorry can't take you seriously
I think that improv is encouraged improperly to where it actually limits players who want to improvise to improvise what they think looks like improv, rather than actually improvising. If that makes any sense >_>

No comments in terms of comebacks.
(>^_^)>
All of you who have voted yes; please read the question twice; if you disagree with either statement, that forcing CBs or forcing IMPROV were a bad thing then click no.

Personally I believe it's nice to have people encouraged to do cvs when playing games, and not just deciding to avoid the opponent for a point win. But for competitive play I see no problem with any player doing so; using any means to win is to me acceptable, as long as it does NOT involve 3rd party tools.

When it comes to improv once again I believe it has provided a better ground for friendly play in the long-term run; but some new players can't even score points at all and there we once had the openers giving new players a chance to win by decimating the opponent and then avoiding the better players as they tried to catch them; nowadays we see new players playing mods like mushy to be able to compete... (I hate instagib. but thats a personal pref.)

So no, forcing these were if you ask me a bad thing for competitive play. For having friendly games, sure.
Now doing recoloring for people not in the clan as-well, PM for more info!
PROUD OWNER OF THORN'S GOOD ENOUGH WRITER AWARD!
It isn't hard to come back from a point deficit and win a game of wushu when both players are focusing on how pretty they look and forcing quick comebacks without full regard for their own safety.

It's another skill entirely to win wushu against another player who's only goal is to win the game. Even taking running out of the equation, the point guarding, the eliminating of possible approach options, the way you comeback with 4,500 points separates you from either glory or miss-opportunity. And we've seen now that this generation of players taught wushu by players who didn't focus on winning are feeble in competition.

I really wished it didn't take a rude awakening and an interesting Halloween this year to make me realize how important it is to duel and learn how to win. If wushu players want to reclaim their mod, the focus should be on how to WIN wushu fairly. Because it's pretty damn embarrassing that clans like Alpha and fl0w were so poorly prepared to play our own mod well enough in competition that we got taken to school by non-wushu players in wushu. To quote snake from the conversation that started this all:

Fl0w sucks...fl0w sucks. Do I really need to say it a third time?

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Creati0n says: still my favorite. <3
I sacrificed my firstborn for this great human being to join (M) ~R
Just Use Thunder!
If I may throw in my 2 cents?

Forcing = bad idea
Encouraging = good idea

So long as that line isn't crossed, I think trying to get fair play into a mod is only a good thing. It can make for some interesting matches and cool comebacks.
But I think there's the potential to over-react to someone not playing "fair" if it's forced.
If it's merely encouraged then those who don't won't feel the urge to provoke.

Notice the quotation marks around fair.
Your definition of fair play is mind boggling at the best of times to a below average wushu player such as myself.
For me, half of the fun of wushu is coming up with hugely over exaggerated spinning openers, yet I'm told openers are bad?
The comeback thing is obvious, ofcourse.

Either way, this all boils down to no; you should never force your views on a mod onto someone else as they may have different thoughts on it
TeamWushu (and by extension fl0w, relaxall and Alpha) aren't the absolute authority on wushu and shouldn't dictate how everyone plays the mod as some seem to want to :v
She/They

Yeah, I only don't like erthtkv2 because of the mod's name. Make it "tkv2," and the mod will instantly become more popular. This is a valid reason as the name of the mod is still an important feature that no one seems to have yet discussed.
i guess i should repeat myself

the only way to learn how to comeback is to learn how to set up.

the best and the fastest way to learn to setup is improv.


i don't see anything wrong with it, really. i do appreciate that many people posted look on such measures with scepticism, and go all justice white knights, yet i'd like to remind the situation BEFORE and AFTER popularization and "enforcing" improv.

way less people tripod, way more people try to comeback. it's not 100% perfect, yet there is no perfect solutions for setting an overall direction of mod.

direction is right, people learn to setup and cb faster since they do the setup phase every start of the game while they improv, instead of spamming memorized moves.

so if you will excuse me, you are overthinking


and about who have a right to decide what's what i can tell only this: if that happened that fl0w, ra and alpha are wushu clans, they SHOULD influence the mod, form tendencies and raise it's standards.
because who else would?

in general any mod community should do it, for the sake of better and more enjoyable gameplay for everyone, instead of being all "democratic" and spineless when it comes to obvious decisions they can and SHOULD influence.
yet again, it happened to wushu folks since our numbers are small. there are just 3 wushu clans total, so we all know and play with each other all the time, nothing unexpected that when we pulled an org to get all wushu players under one roof we pretty much established the wushu standards overall.

whats wrong with that anyway? all i read here to be briliantly honest with you is overthinking, playing "justice" cards and attempts to be hipster in not agreeing with an overal idea for the sake of being "rebel" lol and refusing to acknowledge the obvious results and adding extra levels like "what if".

like competative play have something to do with the basics. really?
improv and comebacks are linked together and form the very basic skill of moving around. all these "tactics" and how to be "competative" is a layer above which is achieveable by other means then just playing, and to be more precise, it's achieved by dueling.

i see no connections between basic framework of skills required to play the mod and dueling. if i miss something enlight me, otherwise - don't play justice cards or try to go all hipster, i'm here for that ahahha
Last edited by snake; Nov 16, 2013 at 10:55 PM.