View Poll Results: forcing improv and comebacks as a standard was good or bad idea?
yes
21 Votes / 55.26%
no
17 Votes / 44.74%
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll
View Poll Results
View Poll Results
Originally Posted by snake
i guess i should repeat myself
the only way to learn how to comeback is to learn how to set up.
the best and the fastest way to learn to setup is improv.
Not necessarily. Everyone learns differently, there is no definitive right/wrong way to learn.
Originally Posted by snake
way less people tripod, way more people try to comeback. it's not 100% perfect, yet there is no perfect solutions for setting an overall direction of mod.
That's guesswork at best and in no way applicable to the argument without actual stats.
Originally Posted by snake
direction is right, people learn to setup and cb faster since they do the setup phase every start of the game while they improv, instead of spamming memorized moves.
so if you will excuse me, you are overthinking
Don't really understand the point of the first bit of this.
Using a variety of starters then playing the rest of the match improv is bad...?
If anything you guys are over-thinking.
It all boils down to you guys forcing your impression of the mod onto others, which is wrong. Point made case closed.
Originally Posted by snake
and about who have a right to decide what's what i can tell only this: if that happened that fl0w, ra and alpha are wushu clans, they SHOULD influence the mod, form tendencies and raise it's standards.
because who else would?
influence, yes
dictate, no
encourage, yes
force, no
see where im going with that?
Originally Posted by snake
in general any mod community should do it, for the sake of better and more enjoyable gameplay for everyone, instead of being all "democratic" and spineless when it comes to obvious decisions they can and SHOULD influence.
yet again, it happened to wushu folks since our numbers are small. there are just 3 wushu clans total, so we all know and play with each other all the time, nothing unexpected that when we pulled an org to get all wushu players under one roof we pretty much established the wushu standards overall.
The fact all you 3 wushu clans play together means that you all know how you'd like to play with each other.
I barely know anyone outside of your 3 clans who thinks about wushu like you guys do >_> (in the sense that "omg starters suck")
Furthermore, by enforcing (enforcing not influencing) standards, you aren't getting all wushuers under one roof. You're excluding those who like to play with starters.
Originally Posted by snake
whats wrong with that anyway? all i read here to be briliantly honest with you is overthinking, playing "justice" cards and attempts to be hipster in not agreeing with an overal idea for the sake of being "rebel" lol and refusing to acknowledge the obvious results and adding extra levels like "what if".
wut
literally just... wut
your "results" are intangible and as far as im concerned non-existent.
I don't even know how to argue this point it's that ridiculous.
It's just accusations based on a preconception, despite the fact YOU opened the topic up for debate
Originally Posted by snake
like competative play have something to do with the basics. really?
improv and comebacks are linked together and form the very basic skill of moving around. all these "tactics" and how to be "competative" is a layer above which is achieveable by other means then just playing, and to be more precise, it's achieved by dueling.
i see no connections between basic framework of skills required to play the mod and dueling. if i miss something enlight me, otherwise - don't play justice cards or try to go all hipster, i'm here for that ahahha
that made no sense
also, if you're meaning hipster as someone who goes against the majority opinion just because it's the majority, then try getting some more opinions from those not so much in the center of the wushu community, then we'll see who has the majority opinion
I came here to offer an opinion as someone who just plays wushu for fun, as most people do, and was met with a hostile "omg invalid arguments just trying to be hipsterlol"
She/They
Yeah, I only don't like erthtkv2 because of the mod's name. Make it "tkv2," and the mod will instantly become more popular. This is a valid reason as the name of the mod is still an important feature that no one seems to have yet discussed.
Yeah, I only don't like erthtkv2 because of the mod's name. Make it "tkv2," and the mod will instantly become more popular. This is a valid reason as the name of the mod is still an important feature that no one seems to have yet discussed.
If the rules that you used to become a better player were working, then the people who would be following them would be performing better in competition than they are.
By a lot at that. Pretty damn sad that wushu clans in the biggest contest of the year lost at wushu against clans who were particularly weak in the mod.
The flaw isn't within the mod, the flaw is within the self-imposed rules that players have when playing it that causes them to perform poorly in it. A bunch of players who under the current council wouldn't achieve the rank T1 or T2 if they applied beat the best 3 wushu clans at wushu.
---
I figured the move from wushu/wushufixed to wushu3/brushu was mainly because people wanted the mod to be more about movement and exhibition of "styles" over a punishment system that DMs and more fractures present. Your solution to add a dojo essentially kills that freedom entirely. I'd much rather have running in wushu than everyone playing the same exact way in wushu with a dojo. As far as I can tell: it's basically lenshu3ng, which is already a competitive mod without room for much creativity. Wushu is cool because of creativity.
By a lot at that. Pretty damn sad that wushu clans in the biggest contest of the year lost at wushu against clans who were particularly weak in the mod.
The flaw isn't within the mod, the flaw is within the self-imposed rules that players have when playing it that causes them to perform poorly in it. A bunch of players who under the current council wouldn't achieve the rank T1 or T2 if they applied beat the best 3 wushu clans at wushu.
---
I figured the move from wushu/wushufixed to wushu3/brushu was mainly because people wanted the mod to be more about movement and exhibition of "styles" over a punishment system that DMs and more fractures present. Your solution to add a dojo essentially kills that freedom entirely. I'd much rather have running in wushu than everyone playing the same exact way in wushu with a dojo. As far as I can tell: it's basically lenshu3ng, which is already a competitive mod without room for much creativity. Wushu is cool because of creativity.
Last edited by Bodhisattva; Nov 17, 2013 at 12:21 AM.
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Creati0n says: still my favorite. <3
I sacrificed my firstborn for this great human being to join (M) ~R
Just Use Thunder!
Originally Posted by Erth
also, if you're meaning hipster as someone who goes against the majority opinion just because it's the majority, then try getting some more opinions from those not so much in the center of the wushu community, then we'll see who has the majority opinion
excuse me, but i don't. when i posted this poll i did it on 4 boards total:
TeamWushu
fl0w
RelaxAll
Alpha
since i consider these folks are anyhow familiar with the whole deal.
when i expect to have someting meaningfull in result, i ask people who are familiar with the question. not randoms.
if smog decided to disperse it and try to make it look "fair" or "democratic" i have nothing to do with it, even if we share the same tag, don't mix it.
about the rest of your response, give me a minute or so. had to get this part clear first of all.
ah, and don't be so self-centric, i was reffering to our guys who decided to go all philosophic on these matters, as they are so called "wushu community"
on your part i replied on "who have a right" and explained why improv is essencial for setups. if my replies should be specificly adressed to each single person other then general reply to discussion and it's mood, i may start to use quotes or names.
-----
Originally Posted by Erth
Not necessarily. Everyone learns differently, there is no definitive right/wrong way to learn.
considering the amount of players i face choosing improv over openers and positively admit that it made them play better, i can assume it's efficient enough.
talking about public wushu servers.
That's guesswork at best and in no way applicable to the argument without actual stats.
from my more or less frequent experience as more or less regular at public wushu servers. so it's reliable enough for the question scope
Don't really understand the point of the first bit of this.
Using a variety of starters then playing the rest of the match improv is bad...?
yes. when you start with improv you basicly make yourself start in unoptimized position which require recovery and adjusting.
when you start with opener you make your thing and only then you enter recovery state.
i'm not naive to believe that most people will actually make an effort to comeback after move is executed. just because it's hard. when you remove opener state, players enter recovery state right from start, so for them game is not split by 2 phases (opener, after opener) anymore, so coming back is rather natural thing to do, since they do it right frome the start of the match.
If anything you guys are over-thinking.
It all boils down to you guys forcing your impression of the mod onto others, which is wrong. Point made case closed.
so what? if it does raise the standarts of gameplay and make matches more fun for both sides so be it.
and please don't close the case you didn't started, as i mentioned earlier my intention was to gather feedback from people familiar with the topic. nothing personal and i'm truly not trying to be a dick, just stating my intentions.
Furthermore, by enforcing (enforcing not influencing) standards, you aren't getting all wushuers under one roof. You're excluding those who like to play with starters.
yes, and we should not try to please everybody. all what i care for example is when i join wushu3 server i have a fun fair match sportsmanship atmosphere without me or my opponent trying to go all dickwad to win. this way no matter what the outcome is i and my opponent are satisfied with the match. (no advantages/disadvantages on start, comebacks) pretty good time if you ask me.
wut
literally just... wut
your "results" are intangible and as far as im concerned non-existent.
I don't even know how to argue this point it's that ridiculous.
It's just accusations based on a preconception, despite the fact YOU opened the topic up for debate
not adressed to you, skip it.
that made no sense
also, if you're meaning hipster as someone who goes against the majority opinion just because it's the majority, then try getting some more opinions from those not so much in the center of the wushu community, then we'll see who has the majority opinion
I came here to offer an opinion as someone who just plays wushu for fun, as most people do, and was met with a hostile "omg invalid arguments just trying to be hipsterlol"
not adressed to you, skip it.
better?
-----
Originally Posted by DrHax
If the rules that you used to become a better player were working, then the people who would be following them would be performing better in competition than they are.
wasn't it you who noticed that to play good in competative environment you should play in competative environment?
because it's correct, to play better in duels, you should do more duels.
but compared to you i don't mix regular play and competative, since these 2 are different things. to make it clear what i always try to advocate is wushu on public static wushu servers. why? because this is the place most of so called "wushu community" exists and play. anything else like duels and clan wars is another topic for discussion. standards set here are the very BASICS and pretty much the core of movement in wushu mods. and thats pretty much about it.
By a lot at that. Pretty damn sad that wushu clans in the biggest contest of the year lost at wushu against clans who were particularly weak in the mod.
i don't see why it's adressed here. if wushu players play more "casual" matches over duels and clan wars it have to do with players choices. here the BASICS that "encourage" players to learn how to move around at this mod.
nothing more or less. movement.
The flaw isn't within the mod, the flaw is within the self-imposed rules that players have when playing it that causes them to perform poorly in it. A bunch of players who under the current council wouldn't achieve the rank T1 or T2 if they applied beat the best 3 wushu clans at wushu.
self imposed rules exist everywhere and it's called an agreement. players agree of some limitations for the sake of more enjoyable game on both parts.
I figured the move from wushu/wushufixed to wushu3/brushu was mainly because people wanted the mod to be more about movement and exhibition of "styles" over a punishment system that DMs and more fractures present.
over rock, scissors, paper game similar to judo you mean?
the dm and ed were raised to make openers less effective that changed metagame from simply choosing the best opener to actually play the game. if you don't notice the change of meta, you are free to ask any "oldschool" players who stopped playing the game long time ago and in 99% they will tell that "why do i need to improv or comeback when i can just do an opener and smash you all over and win like that". for example lightningkid. i assume slip more or less adapted to nowdays reality better, so i'd say it's 50/50
Your solution to add a dojo essentially kills that freedom entirely. I'd much rather have running in wushu than everyone playing the same exact way in wushu with a dojo. As far as I can tell: it's basically lenshu3ng, which is already a competitive mod without room for much creativity. Wushu is cool because of creativity.
what my solution even have to do with this question? if i ever mention it's impementation here on this thread as the topic to discuss before this very reply - quote me.
otherwise stay on topic.
BUT to still answer THIS question, i will go offtopic ONE SINGLE TIME, so if you want to talk about it anymore, feel free to hop on irc and grab your butt buddy jalis with you.
if we talk about this variation, i NEVER said that i have ANY intentions to push it as NEW DE FACTO WUSHU MOD. it was made specially and soely for tourneys, where the most people are the people who will do anything to get their 500 tc, such as spamming openers and run to protect their victory, and the seemless limitation with punishment for runners to me and people who tested it (?quite alot?) it seemed like an "okay" way to give a negative motivation to run, yet everybody EVEN me, agree that wushu is not fun with limitations.
again, if it wasn't clear 10 times before it's "okay" FOR TOURNEYS ONLY.
and don't worry, i still don't take you seriously.
Last edited by snake; Nov 17, 2013 at 01:44 AM.
Reason: <24 hour edit/bump
hajlshjkytjjknm
Speaking about 'tripodding,' (essentially a varied form of "shovelling," if you will) compared to ~1-2 years ago I've seen generally more enjoyment and attempts to do things related to a "fair" continuation of matches. Perhaps I only notice what I would like to, but for me, the community (wushu) has changed positively.
I personally don't mind people using starters, since I've seen most of them by now and know how I should act/play. Similar to aikido and the likes, it's about the perception of the community and how they categorize moves as "omg no fair/you can't do that/etc" or the opposite. Then there are the gains of learning through openers how the Tori moves, and all the fun tweaks and crap that can be done along with it.
This org. represents an ideal. Not necessarily to stroke everybody's backs, but to illustrate what can be achieved and how it can be done. I guess you could say that there are standards to be met upon first entering this org., and so they must be met at this time, or the choice can be made to adapt or to 'walk away' (as is).
"Competitive" compared to playing for fun/what ever, will be different most of the time, but who cares. If you wish to play a certain style, or what ever, then no one's going to stop you.
Speaking about 'tripodding,' (essentially a varied form of "shovelling," if you will) compared to ~1-2 years ago I've seen generally more enjoyment and attempts to do things related to a "fair" continuation of matches. Perhaps I only notice what I would like to, but for me, the community (wushu) has changed positively.
I personally don't mind people using starters, since I've seen most of them by now and know how I should act/play. Similar to aikido and the likes, it's about the perception of the community and how they categorize moves as "omg no fair/you can't do that/etc" or the opposite. Then there are the gains of learning through openers how the Tori moves, and all the fun tweaks and crap that can be done along with it.
This org. represents an ideal. Not necessarily to stroke everybody's backs, but to illustrate what can be achieved and how it can be done. I guess you could say that there are standards to be met upon first entering this org., and so they must be met at this time, or the choice can be made to adapt or to 'walk away' (as is).
"Competitive" compared to playing for fun/what ever, will be different most of the time, but who cares. If you wish to play a certain style, or what ever, then no one's going to stop you.
I'm just going to stop posting now. I don't have a clue why someone would ever value Snake's opinion on wushu over the majority, especially when it contradicts the antics of and methods of most of the players who transcend his skills.
I'll be playing wushu with whoever wants to enjoy the great mod with me. And I'll be using openers because its smarter, more effective, and it makes me happy.
fl0w, RelaxAll, and Alpha showed why they need to practice competitive play. It doesn't mean we don't have crazy potential, I'm just saying its possible that everyone got so wrapped up in an idea that we didn't focus enough at what completes the wushu package. Snudge completely underperformed when it mattered, because he wasn't able to play well when it counted. That's a problem he's admitted to, and it's a problem I'm taking an extremely active approach to fixing within myself and others.
We have a lot of work to do boys. But it's work you can do within yourselves. You don't need a rule change or a mod change to make it happen. It's incredibly obvious that this thread OP had nothing to do with what sparked Snake feeling the need to debate. Most of you agree there's a place for openers as you've stated. The real prompt should have been- what can we do to make Wushu competitive. The answer: start taking a competitive approach within yourself and against one another.
I'll be playing wushu with whoever wants to enjoy the great mod with me. And I'll be using openers because its smarter, more effective, and it makes me happy.
fl0w, RelaxAll, and Alpha showed why they need to practice competitive play. It doesn't mean we don't have crazy potential, I'm just saying its possible that everyone got so wrapped up in an idea that we didn't focus enough at what completes the wushu package. Snudge completely underperformed when it mattered, because he wasn't able to play well when it counted. That's a problem he's admitted to, and it's a problem I'm taking an extremely active approach to fixing within myself and others.
We have a lot of work to do boys. But it's work you can do within yourselves. You don't need a rule change or a mod change to make it happen. It's incredibly obvious that this thread OP had nothing to do with what sparked Snake feeling the need to debate. Most of you agree there's a place for openers as you've stated. The real prompt should have been- what can we do to make Wushu competitive. The answer: start taking a competitive approach within yourself and against one another.
Last edited by Bodhisattva; Nov 17, 2013 at 08:34 AM.
Need help?
Creati0n says: still my favorite. <3
I sacrificed my firstborn for this great human being to join (M) ~R
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Creati0n says: still my favorite. <3
I sacrificed my firstborn for this great human being to join (M) ~R
Just Use Thunder!
