ES Recruitment Drive
Originally Posted by BBKing View Post
Well.. the main problem is, that I can't discuss on this level 'cause of the language. But I give it a try.. I really like the "no dq" idea. It gives a lot of new possibilities and in the end it's not easier 'cause your opponent can't dq too. More striking, less "saving". Also the timeout dq outside the ring makes sense. This rules already used in stabjutsu-original and ninjutsu and I like the idea to add it to the striking mods.

If I'm right, you talked about the possibility to grab the lattice.. well, I don't like this idea. Ppl probably just hang around and do weird kicks 'nd stuff.

That's no problem! There's no need to get into nuances of the language, and if you want me to I can keep away from really strange or complicated grammar just to make it easier to follow. In any case, what I think matters most is people's opinions. As long as we're open to hearing about others' opinions, how they're stated (as long as they're properly explained) shouldn't matter.

But yeah, I think that the makers of stabjutsu-original and ninjutsu were on to something. Unfortunately, it takes a lot more to make something the norm than it does to introduce it. I like that you pointed out the "more striking, less saving."

And I agree, the grabbing the lattice idea is... sketchy, to say the least. Honestly, that's something that we'd have to test and see how it works. Maybe two versions of the mod could be available for a compare and contrast type deal. I just thought it could be an interesting idea to throw around.
It's not a problem to understand what you guys talk about.. it's just hard for me to describe what's in my mind.

Two versions are fine..
I'm strongly against removing DQ in striking mods, it's an important part of learning how to control your tori. If wushu had no DQ when I started playing, I probably would have spent my first months flapping on the ground like a dying fish. DQ puts a necessary emphasis on control ; it sure is tough at first, but the metagame of striking mods would be terrible if players didn't have to mind the DQ.

I'm generally against lowering the skillfloor anyway, it sure makes a more beginner-friendly mod, but on the long term it tends to pull the general level down.
Just to make sure you don't miss it, I'd like to point out that a few pages ago I threw a pretty big mesh of ideas in the thread in the form of a mod proposal. The whole point of me wanting to bring this up is to try to reach a consensus on that. You can follow my sig.

Originally Posted by deprav View Post
I'm strongly against removing DQ in striking mods, it's an important part of learning how to control your tori. If wushu had no DQ when I started playing, I probably would have spent my first months flapping on the ground like a dying fish. DQ puts a necessary emphasis on control ; it sure is tough at first, but the metagame of striking mods would be terrible if players didn't have to mind the DQ.

I'm generally against lowering the skillfloor anyway, it sure makes a more beginner-friendly mod, but on the long term it tends to pull the general level down.

I'm about to hit the sack, but before I go I'd like to share a few quick thoughs.

You actually bring up a really valid point. I was thinking about advanced gameplay, and didn't come close to venturing in thought towards things like beginner's reception. It's true that disqualification teaches you to use your hands and feet properly, which are the most useful tools in moving around in the dojo, and I think you're right in the sense that we should probably retain that.

I think what will get us farther than debating back and forth about small issues is to make a pros and cons list (shoot me) about disqualification, so that we can find some sort of compromise and consolidate some of the bigger issues, i.e. looking out for beginners and looking out for advanced players. (what separates advanced players from beginners is that they already for the most part know how to move their tori, so the benefit of the drive to better learn wouldn't affect them nearly as much). Of course, we've been making decent headway for the little amount of communication at the moment, so it might not even be necessary.

I'm not sure whether compromise on that specific point would include more conditional dq (which I suggested earlier, and Chintu promptly called gay :< ) or mods specifically geared towards either advanced players or beginners.

Kudos for bringing that up though. Again, I never would have thought about it. Just thinking about it now, I think it could be subject to different interpretations. Hopefully we'll figure that out.

Originally Posted by Jedi View Post
The oorgs back up huh? anyway I agree with deprav, its matter of skill andnot flailing

That's not quite the discussion. I suggest you go read Chintus first post on the last page and my response to get a better idea of what exactly the discussion is. Obviously, as deprav has brought up, there's a lot more to it, and hopefully we can address that, but I don't think oversimplifying the issue does anyone any good xD


Why do my posts end up being so damn loooong ;~; I don't even try to do this
Last edited by pouffy; Dec 24, 2015 at 07:01 AM.
Originally Posted by deprav View Post
I'm strongly against removing DQ in striking mods, it's an important part of learning how to control your tori. If wushu had no DQ when I started playing, I probably would have spent my first months flapping on the ground like a dying fish. DQ puts a necessary emphasis on control ; it sure is tough at first, but the metagame of striking mods would be terrible if players didn't have to mind the DQ.

I'm generally against lowering the skillfloor anyway, it sure makes a more beginner-friendly mod, but on the long term it tends to pull the general level down.

timed dq maybe? Because otherwise, with no dq it would just be a sparring mod with higher turn frames.
Originally Posted by deprav View Post
I'm strongly against removing DQ in striking mods, it's an important part of learning how to control your tori. If wushu had no DQ when I started playing, I probably would have spent my first months flapping on the ground like a dying fish. DQ puts a necessary emphasis on control ; it sure is tough at first, but the metagame of striking mods would be terrible if players didn't have to mind the DQ.

I'm generally against lowering the skillfloor anyway, it sure makes a more beginner-friendly mod, but on the long term it tends to pull the general level down.

that's the thing I was talking about.
@pouffywall: I am still unclear about "how you gonna change punishments/rewards". I asked you that in the frame of reference of what all you suggested us in this thread and you just told me "what are punishments/rewards" which I already know. I want to know how you gonna make changes in those areas of gameplay...and if its still the same then why even bother discussing it?
the outside ring timed dq gives more chances to fly off I think. If you failed to keep your tori inside the dojo then its your fault(or punishment whatever you call it) and you must be "instantly dq'd". That is the main reason why the great mods like rk mma and lenshu doesn't have that outside ring dq. Think of someone hitting me with a nice kick for which he gets the points(reward) and I "intentionally" kicks him which leads him out of the dojo which gives me less points but he will surely dq. But no he flies away using that timed dq outside the ring. You should know that in every dojo fight system outside ring dq is always mandatory and is given more priority over points and the timed dq outside the ring simply kills this basic concept. Talking about ninjutsu, it has no dq inside the ring and its about all striking and I like that idea. But this doesn't mean I support that idea of removing dq inside the ring. Striking is not about all striking always, you should know that every form of gameplay has differnet variations and it always doesn't mean you have to totally remove dq and strike like no tomorrow. There are different mods for that. Its about the choice of people of what they wanna play. Unless you actually got something to make the mods better I am not interested.

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

• [OLDA] • Striking Reborn • [RMO] •
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Originally Posted by Chintu View Post
that's the thing I was talking about.
@pouffywall: I am still unclear about "how you gonna change punishments/rewards". I asked you that in the frame of reference of what all you suggested us in this thread and you just told me "what are punishments/rewards" which I already know. I want to know how you gonna make changes in those areas of gameplay...and if its still the same then why even bother discussing it?
the outside ring timed dq gives more chances to fly off I think. If you failed to keep your tori inside the dojo then its your fault(or punishment whatever you call it) and you must be "instantly dq'd". That is the main reason why the great mods like rk mma and lenshu doesn't have that outside ring dq. Think of someone hitting me with a nice kick for which he gets the points(reward) and I "intentionally" kicks him which leads him out of the dojo which gives me less points but he will surely dq. But no he flies away using that timed dq outside the ring. You should know that in every dojo fight system outside ring dq is always mandatory and is given more priority over points and the timed dq outside the ring simply kills this basic concept. Talking about ninjutsu, it has no dq inside the ring and its about all striking and I like that idea. But this doesn't mean I support that idea of removing dq inside the ring. Striking is not about all striking always, you should know that every form of gameplay has differnet variations and it always doesn't mean you have to totally remove dq and strike like no tomorrow. There are different mods for that. Its about the choice of people of what they wanna play. Unless you actually got something to make the mods better I am not interested.

I first made the distinction between punishments and rewards because it's an important distinction to be made. They clearly affect gameplay in different ways, and punishments have to be handled much much more carefully. Not sure if you read my, "Imagine lenshu with a dm threshold of 170 and insta dq... ouch," but even without going to such extremes, punishments can still ruin gameplay. Hence I made the distinction. If you had asked about why I made the distinction before, I would have answered >.>

And about dodging dq outside the ring when you have no hope of getting back into the ring... I'll believe it when I see it. If you set dq frames to 10 outside the ring, I can't believe anyone would be able to keep themselves alive for long, if at all. Although, I will concede the whole outside the ring timed dq. I think it could be good for getting back in the game, if you just need to tap outside the ring to get the angle you need to safely get back in, but honestly would require more testing to figure out how to balance that correctly. It's not really viable with how things are right now.

About dq inside the ring... Disqualification only takes away from striking. I won't concede that. However, in light of how disqualification has the possibility to help beginners develop and learn how to play the mods, I wonder if we should compromise. Of course, that depends on you. My conditional dq/making certain joints resistant to dq idea (which Chintu called gay </3) unobtrusively allows advanced players a wider range of opportunity. You wouldn't have to worry about beginners being inhibited in their growth, because they'd still have to worry about floundering completely. I think if this route were to be taken, knees should be obvious. Other possible joints are less so. I wondered about elbows, and I can see the applications, but I'm not sure how useful it'd actually be.



Alright, so I feel like it shouldn't be long until those issues are completely resolved - whatever the outcome on those - so I implore you to take a look at the outline/proposal (which I conveniently placed in a spoiler at the bottom of this post... there were some comments made which make me wonder whether many people actually noticed it). There is a ton of stuff which should be up for discussion in there that we hopefully will manage to reach a consensus on. You have to remember that I don't mean to meaninglessly debate these things... I want to solidify them for the sake of a mod that will include an already unique concept.

The Original Outline/Proposal

Attached Files
acroshu1ng_fixed.tbm (14.5 KB, 1 views)
Last edited by pouffy; Jan 20, 2016 at 04:27 AM.

It was a long journey...



I decided to act on some advice Lazors gave me and tried to make a first WIP/proof of concept of the mod I proposed. It's pretty scraped together and badly made, with a lot of strange glitches and whatnot, but I think as a proof of concept it turned out alright. I've played around with it a good amount already and have noticed a few things.. but I wonder if you might have more fun noticing them on your own.

Just a note... I can't get this to load in multiplayer at all. I have noooo idea what the problem is, but I'd love it if someone told me how to fix it. It's kinda sad not being able to play it with other people ;~; Hopefully if it ends up getting professionally done by a modmaker it won't have that problem.

Also, yeah, the name is silly.

Uhhhh..... yeah just have fun

The original proposal/outline

Attached Files
pouffyshu01.tbm (28.7 KB, 8 views)
Last edited by pouffy; Jan 1, 2016 at 11:13 AM.