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The death toll would catch up to the normal rate eventually. Nevertheless there would be a period of people dying less often and this would increase the population growth rate for the period of time that the life expectancy was increased for. The important thing to remember is that "all men must die" the only uncertainty is when.
Good morning sweet princess
Originally Posted by Aracoon View Post
I don't poke my head in here much, but I there are definitely some ways this could be bad. Population growth would be one of them. Population growth will be a big problem sometime in the near future, and I don't think making human beings live 40-50+ years would help that much. Again with the population. if we were to (just throwing out numbers here) decrease the deathtole of disease by 50%, that's a hell of a lot less people dying, and I'm sure we honestly do not want that.

Population growth is already a problem, think of China where the one child policy and granny police had to be used, as well as all of the infant mortality.

GM crops will allow a higher population to be sustained but this means the population will grow even more then we wont have a solution
SmallBowl, as I said, life expectancy only affects death rate for a short time, it's not like any less people will end up exentualy dying because nobody will live forever. And I don't think we are talking about GM crops, to be honest I doubt anyone here opposes those (although a few arguments come to mind against it, I can think of more to support it). Nevertheless if we want to argue GM crops I would be more than happy to take the role of opposition for the sake of this threads survival...
Good morning sweet princess
Lol, genetic mutation will end up w/ us taking everything we want, ceasing the existance of necessary food supplies. Then food will be rare, and we'll go after other human beings on Earth. Eventually food will be nonexistent and we'll all die.

Unless we find a way to make food irrelevant.
This topic fell off of the train tracks wow.
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That's not bad it's cool how this topic has so much depth.
Last edited by apple123; Feb 9, 2015 at 06:57 AM. Reason: <24 hour edit/bump
Originally Posted by Bloomedia View Post
Lol, genetic mutation will end up w/ us taking everything we want, ceasing the existance of necessary food supplies. Then food will be rare, and we'll go after other human beings on Earth. Eventually food will be nonexistent and we'll all die.

Unless we find a way to make food irrelevant.

Wait why does being geneticly superior suddenly mean we reside to stop growing food?
Good morning sweet princess
As you said, the population will boom for a while. During that time, there will be more people sticking around, in addition to all of the new people. That means more people need to be fed. Seeing as milk is starting to become a crisis already, I can easily see some other foods rising dramatically in price.
All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy. That’'s how far the world is from where I am. Just one bad day.
Nay.

And Yay.

Nay




Yay

I'm just gamin' man
Please correct "remove a disease or disability from the child" to "remove diseases and disabilities from most children affected", and yeah, I'm a little iffy about you argument that parents being able to predetermine their kids characteristics would increase disappointment with their children in general... Genetic engineering would probably cost money making children more expensive so perhaps less would be made...
Good morning sweet princess
Variables that need to be established (Or, at the very least, should probably be agreed upon for reasonable discussion to occur):

Capabilities of GM - I think we can agree that the really interesting GM is the radical kind: Disease screening and elimination, physical attributes, lifespan extension, etc. Screening for genetic disorders is already doable; it's easy to imagine the ability to fix those disorders. We've similarly identified genes that are related to height (although height is one of those attributes that is tied to multiple genes, so precise modification of height would be tricky), eye and hair color, predisposition to obesity, alcoholism, so on and so forth(1). Lifespan extension is a subject I've discussed before. It's a tricky one because many of its foundations are inherently tied to cancer, but I think it's fair to say that by the time effective GM comes around we'll have ideas on how to extend our lives - if not indefinitely, at least by a significant amount.

Availability of GM - Most of the contention seems to derive from this. It's fair to assume that GM will initially be extremely expensive and inaccessible, just as pretty much every new technology is. That said, it's also completely reasonable to assume that availability will increase exponentially with time, in the same way that availability of automobiles, computers, and more recently genome sequencing did. Barring an intentional attempt to limit access - which I find somewhat unlikely - it seems likely that GM would become highly accessible very quickly(2).

When does GM happen - Will we be able to perform GM only before birth or at any time afterwards? In terms of the radical GM being discussed it seems reasonable to me that the most effective way to accomplish this would be very early - as in, as soon after conception as possible. In this situation you'd only have to modify a small number of cells that would then divide and differentiate into the eventual person. This is how contemporary GM works. Attempting radical GM on a person would almost certainly be significantly more difficult - not only are you working with an obscenely large number of cells, there'd also be other issues: What would the effect of making radical changes in mature cells be? Would it be possible to modify only human cells without affecting the bacteria that make up the human microbiome(3)? Related; how would the normal human microbiome react to such modifications to their host? Although these issues are by no means insurmountable, I suspect that (at least initially) widely-available GM would avoid them by being pre-birth only.

Does the advent of GM also imply significant advancement in other fields? - This one's actually very important. Many of the arguments against GM seem, for some reason, to assume that other fields remain either locked in their current state or, at most, are progressing very slowly. For example, the overpopulation argument assumes that we are unable to leave Earth and therefore are limited by its resources. The related "how will we feed everyone" argument assumes an inability to solve the problem of food production/distribution - which, given the fact that GM is the ability to modify life, seems a little far-fetched. This variable is tricky because it tempts a deus ex machina "oh, but we'll have found a solution for that!" response to anything and everything. While locking all other fields into their current state is an efficient solution because it gives everyone common ground, it simply doesn't seem like a realistic prediction of the context that GM will exist in.

Bored of typing now. Will address actual arguments and their merits at some other point. Probably.

(1) At this point I'm obligated to mention the nature/nurture issue. Few attributes are 100% determined by genetics. Upbringing and lifestyle can make a "genetically shy" person outgoing, a "genetically athletic" person obese, etc. Genetics should not be considered the end-all of defining a person, a point which needs to be considered heavily when you consider many of the ethical issues with GM.
(2) Although probably not available to 100% of people (barring radical societal changes), which is where you could potentially get a 'classist' argument.
(3) The human body actually contains more bacterial cells than human cells. Although our ability to target certain cells for treatment is improving quite a bit, I suspect that this point alone would be a serious obstacle.

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