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Old Apr 26, 2017   #51
LordGaara
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Don't understand why you have to be rude cowmeat tbh. Most things get ignored and this game is going downhill lol nobody listens and nobody cares like some of the staff. Super rude for no reason but the again you guys are all friends so it doesn't matter. And if you're not a well known friend of staff members already, GOODLUCK on getting it. favoritism imo.
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Old Apr 26, 2017   #52
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Lmao the one guy everyone bashed here is the only guy who didn't defend himself yet he is doing more than I have seen anything get done since 2009.
And if you advertise like I said cow meat. I'm sure they could eventually work towards payin there staff. No wonder nothing gets done with people so negative like you in the community puts out no hope

Sorry to all the new people coming in sorry Toribash will no longer be doing anymore to try to save it apparently lol
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Originally Posted by LordGaara View Post
Don't understand why you have to be rude cowmeat tbh. Most things get ignored and this game is going downhill lol nobody listens and nobody cares like some of the staff. Super rude for no reason but the again you guys are all friends so it doesn't matter. And if you're not a well known friend of staff members already, GOODLUCK on getting it. favoritism imo.

And if this wasn't true why do so many people see it this way without biased opinions to. New people see it
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Originally Posted by sir View Post
Well he was also banfired from GM team back in a day so it's not like there is some particular reason to like him while keeping all his history in mind and the fact that people who claim that they "talk to hampa" usually just spam the man instead of helping in development process. You know, the regular dull stuff like actually collecting data on what the majority wants. Not these things only a small portion of people desire to see and think it can make the game better because they're obviously the best game designers and businessmen of all time. There is a whole S&I section to filter that.


Anyway I never understood the purpose of these threads and they've been constantly popping up since 2011. You don't like how things get done? Apply to join staff, do them better. Got ideas on how to make the game better but can't do it yourself? Go to S&I, make your idea well-thought, spam the shit out of me to get feedback if you think it's getting ignored. I check the section every time there are new posts inside. Community is doing fine taken the fact that nobody uses forums now. Could be better, but it's still ok.

lmao thats what we are doing. but not under your command. We are trying to save it without your help :^) or any staff so we can keep out of the eyes of the corruption, may not be corrupted but it sure as hell seems like it especialyl the way kyure shit went. Maybe the community will band together and try to save the game rather than complain about it. As much as i complain i put my money where my mouth is. unlike half the staff and half players complaints.
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Last edited by Mikes; Apr 27, 2017 at 01:08 AM.. Reason: <24 hour edit/bump
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Old Apr 27, 2017   #53
SpartaCraft
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Again, I have to stress not to bicker. It's a conversation, not a blame-game.

It isn't the staff's job to advertise, but the job of the publisher if they want the game to survive. So there's no point in pointing fingers at any of the staff that aren't officially affiliated with the publisher, since they're just community members as well.

As an example: Minecraft had no advertising before ending up at 17,000,000 PC copies sold, because friends shared the game with friends and that group of friends shared the game to other communities and platforms. If you think the game needs advertising to survive and you want that to happen, you can advertise the game to your friends and branch out to different communities.

Regardless, I must emphasize to stay on topic, otherwise I'll have to have the thread closed. I would like proper discussion to continue in the next post.

@ShhhMikes Thank you for your continued input and giving us a vast perspective of your opinion!
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Last edited by SpartaCraft; Apr 27, 2017 at 01:13 AM.. Reason: le sigh...
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Old Apr 27, 2017   #54
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Originally Posted by sir View Post
Ele: define your vision of "fine", please. 20k posts daily with 2k min concurrent users?

Originally Posted by sir View Post
nobody uses forums now

My version of fine would be a reversal of the current downward trend.

Forum post stats


What's concerning is you don't even seem to think this is important.
Originally Posted by sir View Post
I wouldn't even bother trying to attract players to forums that much now to be honest

It's like you've given up on it. Hell, maybe it's not your job, maybe that 'Community Manager' we have/had Gynx (transparency pl0x) is letting us down instead.

@SpartaCraft, this shit is all on-topic. Don't stifle this conversation by over-moderating.

Last edited by Ele; Apr 27, 2017 at 03:38 AM..
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Old Apr 27, 2017   #55
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I remember 2011. Lest we forget.

However, I believe toribash was actually going exceptionally in 09, this isnt terrible by standards of forums. They havent been as popular in the last 9 years anyway, just by their older nature. Some younger people don't even know what a forum is.
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Last edited by AussieCunt; Apr 27, 2017 at 03:49 AM..
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Old Apr 27, 2017   #56
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Originally Posted by SpartaCraft View Post
Again, I have to stress not to bicker. It's a conversation, not a blame-game.

It isn't the staff's job to advertise, but the job of the publisher if they want the game to survive. So there's no point in pointing fingers at any of the staff that aren't officially affiliated with the publisher, since they're just community members as well.

As an example: Minecraft had no advertising before ending up at 17,000,000 PC copies sold, because friends shared the game with friends and that group of friends shared the game to other communities and platforms. If you think the game needs advertising to survive and you want that to happen, you can advertise the game to your friends and branch out to different communities.

Regardless, I must emphasize to stay on topic, otherwise I'll have to have the thread closed. I would like proper discussion to continue in the next post.

@ShhhMikes Thank you for your continued input and giving us a vast perspective of your opinion!

i said that. thats what we are doing. Actually if you check out Our org page youll see i was already planning that before you said anything. Trust me. Im going to try my best to get what others didnt get done from a non staff position. thats why im here talking.
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Old Apr 27, 2017   #57
-sir
Originally Posted by Ele View Post
My version of fine would be a reversal of the current downward trend.

Forum post stats


What's concerning is you don't even seem to think this is important.

It's like you've given up on it. Hell, maybe it's not your job, maybe that 'Community Manager' we have/had Gynx (transparency pl0x) is letting us down instead.

Ok, I got it.

Well yeah, I think that forum activity is not the main parameter when it comes to judging the overall player activity in a game - number of users playing is. Has it been declining since the Steam release? Yes, of course. Is it reaching catastrophically low numbers? No.

Some more graphs



When we got a Steam release in 2014 it gave the game an immense boost - we got 2.6k concurrent players. Since then, the number of concurrent players has obviously been declining because that's what happens with games over time. While I agree that we could do more to keep people interested, things aren't going as bad as you may think.

2016 was, in my opinion, completely wasted, and I still blame people who took the leading staff positions (will explain why I think it is staff's fault and not devs'/hampa's). Instead of getting dev team to polish the matchmaking and make a proper 5.0 release, what the community got was an alpha build we tested in late 2015. Stuff that was added after that (not that it's a whole year of development): staff prefixes in 5.01, nothing, basically nothing too. The reason here is that people who took the manager positions did not actually have any idea on what to do about the game. It is not a secret to anyone that hampa keeps distance from the community / the game in general and almost all the coding stuff gets done by Dranix - so when you officially apply for a "Community Manager" position in Toribash it's anticipated that you'd act as a mediator between the community and devs. Not just tell them about every single thread in S&I in skype, but figure out a general strategy and work towards it. There was a development plan when I was around in 2015, it got neglected for a whole year I was away. Dranix is a great coder but he doesn't play the game much - which is why there always needs to be a person to tell him what to add to the game. As any dev he can also be kinda lazy so you have to control the whole process from time to time. It's probably not what a "Community Manager" in its regular understanding does, but Nabi is a small company - and you have to do bits of everything when working on an indie project. Especially if you're aiming at getting paid (and getting a community manager position to get free TC sounds weird).

Toribash development speed isn't the best too but that's what Item Forgers and GMs/ES exist for - to fill the delays with new content. Looking at IF releases throughout 2016 the only thing that comes to my mind is that people who greenlit those items didn't even bother to release something that a regular player would want and be able to buy. 35k for a Pilgrim's Hat, 50k for a Flower Crown (which should have been a seasonal item in the first place)? Like, really? There were items that nobody bought before we changed shop pricing, and that was absolutely hilarious to see when I came back. No successful game sets such ridiculous prices, nobody would want to play thousands of games to get a crap item - and that is one of the reasons why players drop out. At the same time, they added more ST items (and ES started hosting less). Ugh.


Regarding the "It's like you've given up on it" line, I'm not sure if you were paying attention at what's been happening in Toribash over the last 4 months. Matchmaking, Steam trading cards, tutorial updates, new item releases (and hey they sell well), upcoming ST change and other updates I can't speak about yet - we've probably done more in Q1 2017 than what was done during the whole 2016. Finally got an active forum dev too which is awesome. So no, we obviously haven't given up.
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Old Apr 27, 2017   #58
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I already agree with you sir. I think all my posts here have leaned towards this being a fairly un-needed thread.

I'm just literally speaking from a player point now, game activity has barley changed, besides the mods and the faces. This is from 2011 till now.

Activity fluxs on all forums. I've seen a few die in my time. But this wont happen here, not for a while.

You all expect the world to just stop spinning.
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Old Apr 27, 2017   #59
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Cool that this stuff is being talked about, was wondering if there was even a plan anymore.

Unrelated



First of all, I'd like to know how many users actually use the Matchmaking. Not trying to insinuate that it isn't worth using, just wondering if it's an addition people are even taking advantage of.

I can pretty much agree with most of your post, but I do also agree with Ele's passing statement regarding transparency.

I think a bit of what's causing people to feel like the game is dying/given up on is the fact that theres really no way to know what you fellas have planned.

What's the next step you guys are trying to achieve? What problems are you currently facing that might be slowing these steps down? What do active players have to look forward to that might keep them active?

If people knew what was going on, then they wouldn't feel as though the game is going nowhere. Don't really see anyone losing from more transparency on various subjects.

You've been working on Matchmaking and Tutorials, awesome. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think you fellas even mentioned Tutorial changes were being worked on, the only publicly accessible thread I can find it on is in the 5.12 release post you made. At that point it was already done and over with, and from what I can tell from the very few people who even noticed it who posted were morso excited about a bug fix.

Wouldn't be a big deal but the game having poor tutorials is something that tons of people know about and probably would have liked being a bit more involved in. Or at least, informed it was happening. Just an example.

In regards to advertising the game, dunno much about that but it doesn't hurt to ask about it.

Originally Posted by cowmeat View Post
What makes you think TB makes enough money to do any of that.

Only including this part of your post since the rest was so useless you may as well have not even wasted time typing it.

I'd really implore people to ignore posts like these, since they really do more harm than good. Don't be afraid to ask questions or give your opinion just because people might respond like this. Just ignore it.

In response though I think you might be right, and anyway now that sir has let us know that the player base isn't super low like some of us thought, maybe it really isn't necessary for Toribash right now.
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Old Apr 27, 2017   #60
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Originally Posted by Cheshyre View Post

I'd really implore people to ignore posts like these, since they really do more harm than good. Don't be afraid to ask questions or give your opinion just because people might respond like this. Just ignore it.

In response though I think you might be right, .

Yeah, let's just ignore all reason when it comes to improving this game. Let's not worry about small details like the reality of the situation.
Let's just dish out ridiculous ideas and ignore people when they point out how ridiculous the idea is because "Truths do more harm than good"

What you are literally saying is that "Ignore the person who is right because I don't like what he is saying". What a great attitude on how to improve something.
Gosh what a dumb thing to say.

Last edited by cowmeat; Apr 27, 2017 at 11:18 AM..
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