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Old Jun 11, 2017   #21
monkeyishi
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how do we teach style. or guide someone towards one of their own?
can we divide styles up into categories? striker, wrestler like the tiers?
how do you describe someones style if its not easily visible like xbcz and his no grabs?
can we think of style as a game plan or is a game plan just part of it?
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Old Jun 11, 2017   #22
Thronior
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I don'tthink it's possible to teach or guide towards a style since style is created from experience.
I don't think deviding styles in those simple categories will work since people often do more than one of these but it could still be considered 1 style. I think the best way to describe styles would be with adjectives like "controlled" "aggressive" "good looking" "risky" etc.
I'll use my style as an example;
I tend to do unexpected and unsafe moves, moves in which you can in no way know the consequenzes or moves which have a 50/50 chance to be either amazing or complete fails depending on your opponents move. Due to this description, i'd say that i have a risky/reckless style.

Rich (xbcz) is a special case tho, he does simply not play aikido. If you play often with him you'll notice that not only is he restricting himself by playing nograb, but even when playing nograb he is still limiting himself. I honestly think his goal is to look good rather than win, hence why it looks like he sucks sometimes.

I don't know what a gameplan is supposed to be, but I'll just guess by saying that style is a part of toribash but not necessary for the game to work
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Old Jun 12, 2017   #23
monkeyishi
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what happens if we approach it from the same way a personality profile would.
defensive vs aggressive
risky vs safe
striker vs grappler?
grabs vs no grabs
game plan vs free flow
what other things can we use? then when we know what they kinda are or kinda want to be we can give better move ideas
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Old Jun 12, 2017   #24
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free flow vs forcing*
TA Council Member <3Join Team 'Kido !#TeamFlow
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Old Jun 13, 2017   #25
Thronior
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Originally Posted by monkeyishi View Post
what happens if we approach it from the same way a personality profile would.
defensive vs aggressive
risky vs safe
striker vs grappler?
grabs vs no grabs
game plan vs free flow
what other things can we use? then when we know what they kinda are or kinda want to be we can give better move ideas


i honestly don't support your idea, but it think it is worth a try. Someone (not me) should create such a survey, the best way to do it would be asking the people taking the survey how they would move (which joints) in a certain moment, then we could assemble this information and give each move a score in different aspects.

After these scores are given we need to guess how they would move in other situations, purely on the numbers given from the survey.

while we guess these other moves, the person taking the survey fills out a second part of the survey where they choose their moves in the exact same situations as the tester has to guess.

After both parties (tester and taker) are done filling out the survey we need to see how accurately the tester answered. The testers part is necessary at an early stage of this survey to check how accurate the survey is.

When about 10-20 (the toribash communitiy is small and doesn't have many good players willing to take this test) have completed the survey we can say how accurate it is and if it works.

If this works, you are completely right about the personality profile, but if it doesn't (which i strongly believe) it was all for nothing and style isn't possible to be determined that way.

Even in the case of it not working i still think it's interesting information to have, hence why i think it is worth trying.


I hope you could follow up to this point since i often have trouble communicating my ideas, especially when it's something that you can execute
-----
PS: i think you should rename this thread into "Discussion about skill and style" or something like that, i don't think the current title suits it

Last edited by Thronior; Jun 13, 2017 at 12:52 AM.. Reason: <24 hour edit/bump
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Old Jun 14, 2017   #26
monkeyishi
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what moments could we use? how they react to specific attacks?
i don't think your use is the same as mine. its not really meant to be a predictor of what they will do. Its a descriptor of what they are doing. then we can point them towards players who already doing what they do but better.
If we review the last ten replays of someone. we can get a pretty go idea of how they play.
for example you said you are a risk taker. So you would be on the higher end of being a risky player. if we had a line from risky to conservative.
risky<--I------->conservative
and if we can do that why not for other things.
freeflow<---------->forced

so i would propose getting replay dumps of the last ten replays of people figure out what adjectives are applicable. this will rely on an honesty system. got ten replays for me? i'll post as i work things out and see where im going right or wrong.
then once i have enough adjectives i'll see what i can do with it.
i vote its still on topic because if we get this working it would make it easier to match students and teachers. and we could put the method in the tips. or should we make a new thread?
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Old Jun 14, 2017   #27
Thronior
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Let's add a special rule to the replays which is that all 10 replays have to be against different opponents, i think this reduces the risk of getting wrong results due to an unchanging opposing style.

I'll see if i can get those 10 replays today
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PS: i know that it's not about predicting moves, but i think that being able to predict moves correctly is a proof for understanding someone's style

Last edited by Thronior; Jun 14, 2017 at 06:36 AM.. Reason: <24 hour edit/bump
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Old Jun 14, 2017   #28
monkeyishi
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against the same person would mean a better base line. plus how you react to problems.
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Old Jun 14, 2017   #29
Thronior
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It would also mean tryharding if you keep losing and doing random things if you keep winning
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Old Jun 16, 2017   #30
monkeyishi
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all it needs to be is auto save turned on play a bunch of games get a section of ten replays in a row. from the recent set. just to provide a snap shot how you played at that time. if you want to play around with the way you play that's fine. ten is only a small sample size so its not all encompassing. and i was only planing to do a surface look at it to start with. just to see if this is any good?
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