This whole thread is just text, which I respect us as a community should be able to discuss what we think is right or wrong and try to change it. Now I'd like to give my two cents into this discussion.

The first question you guys should be asking should be is a secondary clan for [Parrot] really needed? Most secondary clans I see on other video games are usually there for just in case the main clan is full and if someone leaves they could just bring someone from the secondary clan. This might not be the reason why you guys have a secondary clan but if it is, from what I see Sir said you guys still had at least 10 free spots in [Parrot] so there should be no need. Another problem I see with other Toribash clans not just [Parrot] I see is that they keep members that haven't played for years which is wasting space.

My second point is just pretty much a regurgitation of Rai's point when it came to the Staff Complaint thread that Ping made. Which was that your Parrot's Guide On Joining is not approachable for people. To me, it just seems like a meme thread and not a serious application thread for the clan.
When I applied for [Parrot] a while ago I was also asked to dance right after I sent my application. Personally, I wouldn't want to show myself to people I wouldn't consider friends so I understand why other people wouldn't want to do it. Maybe you guys have changed your ways but still, you have to understand, it's weird.

Onto the conclusion. Personally, I'm in the middle. I feel like clans should be able to have secondary clans if they want, but on the other hand I feel as if you should have have a secondary clan when it's needed.

At the end of the day rules are rules.

i would like to iterate that this thread was NOT in any way serious. the fact that people could take it seriously as their method to their madness is completely beyond me.

I understand that. We the Toribash community understand that. It's a joke but you also have to understand why people would hesitate or not even think about applying. It's just a little too memey.

@16bars, We didn't make Parakeet because we wanted to raise our membercap (in fact we increased Parrot's membercap right before we launched), so that puts a pin in that argument.

Parrot's not going to stop being fun and parroty. We want people who are fun and parroty. Our application process, so far, has lead to us recruiting a lot of fun and parroty people. We asked you to dance because we weren't overly impressed with you, but we still gave you the opportunity to change our minds by showing your level of commitment to joining us. It may be 'memey' but it separates the people who really want to join us, from the people who don't.

Parakeet isn't just a dedication test, like dancing was. It's development. Raising members to be better members. Something like Parakeet would've been perfect for you when you applied. Unfortunately we didn't have it at the time.

Parakeet is essentially a Parrot-sponsored unofficial clan on its own. They're going to be active in Parrot boards and Parrot is going to be active in their boards. I has literally nothing to do with member cap (we even went out of our way to war and raise our cap before launching Parakeet so that this was the case)

Basically, you helped prove our point. You applied, but lost interest and gave up. If we had Parakeet, you'd be able to join and really get to know how we Parrots are, and get to know us better than "wow Parrots r cool I wanna join"


Also, honestly a lot of the sub-clan-type clans I've seen in other games are actually trial for the main clan. I've been in a few myself and they're very effective.

again, you don't need parakeet for that
you have your own discord and IRC channels if you really want people to know you better. many clans use this process (us included) and it works fine, there is no need for a subclan

I'm not asking [Parrot] to be less fun, all I'm suggesting is that you guys make the application a little bit more approachable. Sure you guys have probably recruited fun members but I'm sure you could have and still can recruit people with a better application system.


I actually thought about applying to (Parakeet) but then I thought why should I do this when I could just apply for the main one again even though it's a weird application system.


I gave up because I was asked to bloody dance, the problem isn't me in that situation, it's the fact people asked me to show myself when we aren't even friends yet.


After looking at more sub-clans in other games that's true. Overall even though it seems like I'm against, you guys have honestly made me change my mind on this situation. Having a sub-clan doesn't hurt anyone when I think about it. The only thing could be a negative is that the sub-clan would war the main clan and just feed them wins in clan wars but this has a simple solution.

This case is a splendid example of overruling things nobody should actually care about.
I mean, you clan admins have so much power and so much responsibility to deal with. It must be a huge burden to serve this great community and not suffocate from the sheer pressure.
You are true gods. You need some sort of way to show the peasants the right way.

We should all be thankful for the huge amount of voluntary work you put into this game. I praise you for your altruistic efforts to bring improvements to this community.
I love everyone who is willing to put their time into something beautiful without asking for any returns.
Surely, there must be a way for us, as a community, to work together and figure out a good solution that will suit parrot's needs.

Admins, be honest with yourself. Who actually gets harmed even a tiny bit if people create sub-clans?
Everyone involved is perfectly transparent about the issue and nobody gets cheated or wronged by anything.

It is no exploit of any system either because there are no actual benefits for the main clan.

You brought up the point of member caps. May I ask how this child clan thing is a workaround on that? Is it not so that far inferior players would be in the child clan, trying to fight for a spot in the big clan? It is not as if they are equal clans that will try to cheat in events or leagues and things like that.
If they do that, you can ban them rightfully of course.

The only issue that may possibly occur is that child clan and main clan may exploit the clan war system to boost their points.
That one can easily be prevented, and honestly, if someone was going to exploit that they wouldn't go the route of creating an official child clan.

This is just bureaucracy and you know it.
Let people play the game like they want to play it. Don't force them to play it a certain way.

I mean, I personally think that child clans are a pretty inefficient and perhaps stupid way to go about this, but my personal opinion on that particular issue is irrelevant.
The big picture you should discuss is not if the idea if stupid, but if the idea is inherently malevolent or harmful in any way.
If it is not, let them have their stupid fun, goddamnit.
They are good people and they bring life to this community. Life is good, right?

Another thought I just had:
What if Ele was to leave Parrot officially. He could then go ahead and create a clan, perhaps he will name it Parakeet.
Now this new clan does not have any official affiliation with Parrot, though they may work together in close friendship, like many other clans are already doing.
They are not mother and child but they work together towards similar goals.

Would this be prohibited?
I think it would be a fun thing to create a new clan that has a very tight friendship with another, and perhaps they will end up exchanging members. These things happen regularly and that is nothing to be frowned upon.



Wow, you are being asked to humiliate yourself and then they wonder why their clan is dying? >_>

Not that I haven't done stupid things like that myself in the past, but boy, that's dumb.

For the record, our clan is far from dying, it's pretty active. If it was dying then certainly nobody would be thinking about adding a child clan.

Also we've asked a lot of people to apply in weird and wonderful ways, and generally the people who are up to the challenge are accepted. We've had people dance, write and sing us songs about oranges, get strangers on the street to tell us to invite them, ride a unicycle in a parrot costume and make a video tutorial on how to make a balloon parrot just to name a few. It's just a bit of fun, the vast majority of the time applications aren't contingent on this, it's just if we weren't going to accept them in the first place but want to give them a chance to make us lose our shit and yell welcome.

Anyway, as rai said in the other thread, to move this forward apparently somebody needs to make a thread in the S&I board on how to make this work. Seems fair enough

If other clans are using Discord and the IRC to get to know potential members, that's all good, we're not against that.
Why bash the idea of something different though?
It's not like we don't allow people to hang out in our Discord/IRC to get to know us, but Parakeet is more for the people we may have not even heard about before. New members of the community will look at [Parrot] and think, "I'd never get accepted into a clan like that, they're way too big/popular." I'm speaking from experience too. I didn't even have enough confidence (I guess?) to apply for Parrot until I was more or less "known" in the community.

Think of it from a beginner's point of view. He may have one of the best personalities out there, but in his eyes, he's new, he doesn't know anybody from the clan and he doesn't feel he'd be accepted by any chance whatsoever. He then applies to a less known, smaller clan, because he is confident he'd have a chance. I'm not saying new players don't have a chance to join Parrot obviously, I'm saying that the high majority of new players wouldn't think they had the chance to join so they wouldn't apply whatsoever.

New players would see (Parakeet) and see that it's a smaller, possibly less known clan.(dunno about now though seeing as a huge deal was made about it)
They'd then obviously think that applying is an option and may or may not apply but the choice to apply is way more likely.

If we need to make an S&I thread to show you that this isn't some plan to workaround the member cap or boost our XP or farm achievements etc. then sure, we're up for that challenge.

You could've talked to us about it and asked us to change things if needed before shutting us down completely after not even 2 days. Thanks.