Originally Posted by SkulFuk

Interesting, so basically you're talking about computer reliant basement dwellers incapable of doing anything? Ha, people who claim they're above education are hilarious.
I love mocking them with big words that they can't understand.
I love seeing the look on their face when they take stuff to a till & discover they can't afford it.
I love the way they've condemned themselves to a life of poverty because no one will ever hire them...

...I also love that their scabby scruffy unwashed asses can't afford the very objects that they've became reliant on.

I short: Get an education or remember that there'll be people like me saying "I told you so" when you're picking your dinner out the trash. Mmmmm half eaten burger, tasty.

Originally Posted by deprav

Hmmm, don't mix education and school : when one can be educated without following the classing schooling system, one can go to school and stay a dumbshit without a clue about life untill the end of his.

Originally Posted by deprav

Education is indeed necessary, that's what make us "civilized", we pass on our history and knowledges because we haz thumbs, that's our "weapon" to survive.

Originally Posted by deprav

But most actual scholar systems are stacks of shit. The main goal of the actual schools is to shape the minds of young people to prepare them for their following life of work enslavement, to make them enter the "mold" our actual economic system wants them to fit in. Our schools emerged from our political conception, if our political system is rotten, schools are rotting with it.
It's not really helping people to develop critical thinking and objectivity.

It's not really helping people to develop critical thinking and objectivity.

Originally Posted by deprav

Hell there even are some schools that refuse to teach evolutionsim.

Originally Posted by deprav

The fact that you need to finish school and get a degree to have a job doesn't prove that people with a degree are well educated. It's just prove they did their scholarship like good little soldiers.

Originally Posted by deprav

So my point is : education and remodeled schools to give students the means and knowledges to think by themselves, express themselves properly, and be better person : yes

Actual brainwashing school systems : no

Hah... this is classic. Ya, you can become educated without a formal education but how do you plan on getting a job based off of that? If corporations just took your word for it, I'd be CEO of every company known to exist.

Yes one can go through school and not learn anything... we call those people lazy or failures. It is entierly up to the individual what they take from school. If they choose to believe their "talents" will be acquired after dropping out of high-school then they are free to try. And if you want to live by the idea that you're too good for school, then teach yourself, and see where you get. Who's to stop you?

I don't know what that means, thumbs are most defiantly not weapons. Nor, are they necessary for survival. Education serves many purposes but belive it or not, education wasn't always mandatory, it was sought after. People wanted to learn (imagine that). Education isn't inteded to make us civilized, it is intended to progress civilization. It is too expand on cultural arts, to help address problems we have, are, or may face. Schools are a tool not a burden.

I'm going to stop you right there. What is a "scholar system"?

Also, can you site any of those outrages accusations to a reliable source? You seem to be talking out your ass because you're not a fan of school.

What? Critical thinking and objectivity are the essence to change. The very thing you propose to do. If you want to change the present day schooling system, then you need to think critically about how it's done now and how it could be better.

You need to question what schools teach us and think.. "is this right?".

[Umm, not in America. Schools (public or private, even home schooling) must follow an established curriculum. They may include their own opinions but they must teach the curriculum. Not only in America, probably close to all developed countries have an established curriculum that teach evolution.

Actually it does, how else do you propose to evaluate potential workers for job openings? Again, "did their 'scholarship'"? You don't do scholarships, you earn them.

I... I don't... I really don't follow what you were trying to convey here. Please, go back to school and finish the 8th grade. Then, come back and tell me what you were trying to say.

Originally Posted by deprav

Your first sentence kinda proved my whole point that School actually aim to create good working ressources that fit the actual system, ready to enter the meat grinder without asking too many questions.

Originally Posted by deprav

People who go through school and do not learn anything are just people, they're not lazies or failures... they're human beings who didn't fit the actual schooling system, because it's stuck and "broken", it's a relic from the past, probably back to the start of the industrial era.

Originally Posted by deprav

from an evolutionary point of view : no thumbs = no tools, no tools = no hand-writting, no hand-writting = no history, no knowledges = no civilization. That's something you don't learn at school ;o

Originally Posted by deprav

Then I don't know what you're arguing for about education... I said it's indeed necessary, you say it "isn't inteded to make us civilized, it is intended to progress civilization", which kind of doesn't make sense in itself.
Of course people want to learn, who would like to live a life he doesn't understand. You're mixing school and educations, I'm not arguing against education.

Originally Posted by deprav

"scholar system", schooling system I guess, english isn't my natural language.
And no, I can't "cite" those "outrages accusations to a reliable source", it's the fruit of my own thinking, experience and observations : actual schools suck, that's a fact.

Originally Posted by deprav

Yep, so why are we not changing ? If most of people were able to be critical and objective I think we'd know it by now.
I did think critically about how it's done and how it could be better, I thought about it numerous time actually...But I'm not gonna write you an essay about schooling, we're here to discuss not to reform.

Originally Posted by deprav

You don't just "include your own opinion", religious or political, to children barelly in age to understand and reason logically, with critical thinking... Their "source of informations" needs to be neutral. As a figure of authority, one just can't simply say "Evolution is bullshit because jesus blablabla...".
Here for instance, teachers shut the fuck up about their own opinions, I'm not saying we have a good education system, we probably have one of the worst in Europe, but at least we have the neutrality of informations.

Originally Posted by deprav

Evaluation of future potential workers shouldn't be something School "worries" about; Its goal should be to educate logic conscious minds, the "evaluation for potential workers" part should be entirely up to the companies/corporations/whatever work place...
But once again, if the political system is rotting, its educational system is rotting with it.

Originally Posted by deprav

Yep, you earn a scholarship, like you earn a pay raise or a promotion... that's exactly my point, school makes workers, not "clever people".

Originally Posted by deprav

I even have a funny video to show you that people, who doesn't seem to be lazy homeless failures, can make their way out of school and society and still be hardly educated.

Originally Posted by Lazors

Vid

Show

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I'm just gonna leave this here, i'm so very close to calling JayStar an idiot, but i'm gonna wait until i get back to my computer and do it in a more "educated" way, as in, explaining why he is an idiot.

Originally Posted by T0ribush

To say we dont need our thumbs because of our brain power is stupid. We're one of the only species to have thumbs. And as cavemen without our thumbs we would be feeding off grass and trees and not using rocks, bones, and sticks to hunt. Hell, holding a baby with out thumbs running from predators is stupid when we can club it to death with our sure grips with sticks and stones. Which would later turn into hammers, clubs and spear. We wouldn't be able to properly throw, or even punch properly. The thumb on the human is one of the most important traits the specie has. Try not using your thumbs for a day or a couple.

Originally Posted by T0ribush

Also you must look pretty stupid writing without your thumb. How do you hold the pen? With all fours or just two? You wouldnt be able handwrite as fast and efficiently. As I type on my iPod I'm using thumbs, would you type wig your index finga's?

Originally Posted by suomynona

Overly emphasizing on the thumb derails the discussion from education. If you really want to have this discussion, then don't derail it. Otherwise, I will close this thread like the last one was closed.

What you call a "meat grinder" is what most call a career. No one is going to force you to choose a career or a specific career. If you want a job, take classes, learn, apply yourself and perhaps you can get it. There's nothing wrong with raising school standards, but to say school is useless is just ignorant.

Seems to work for millions of students that graduate every year. Sound to me you're making excuses for those who don't wish to apply themselves. I see them everyday at school. Both high-school and college. Kids that think their future is entitled to them.

Again, how do you plan on rating potential applicants?

Reform seems to be what you're after. Why not share your ideas on doing so instead of declaring the present system as garbage? Besides, there isn't any change to school because there need not be. Millions of people graduate high-school and go on to get a job or additional schooling. Why should we think the few who don't aren't lazy but just don't "fit the system".

if you can't reason between opinion and fact you're a moron. If you need teachers and parents to tell you that what they're saying isn't fact but is only an opinion, you have no hope for the world outside.

It isn't what school worries about, it's what it tests for.

I'm confused by your logic. Earning a scholarship makes kids into hard workers, which is bad because somehow that takes away from their intellect?

Because Cow makes sense. Although the way schooling is done today isn't ideal, Cow understands there is no efficient way to mass produce knowledgeable students without doing in like an assembly line.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but merely pointing out that there is no other way to effectively teach the masses as of now.