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Old Feb 16, 2017   #1
Veoo
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Immigration and Trump
So recently there have been some people protesting Trumps immigration plans.

Here are my thoughts:

Illegal immigration is illegal. We should never stand for illegal immigrants. If someone comes over here illegally and has kids and we have to deport them back feeling bad for them because they have kids that are US citizens is ridiculous. I do however believe that immigration is a key part of this country, if you think about it, we are a country of immigrants; I believe that Trump is alienating some legal immigrants but his general crack down on illegals is ok. As far as a wall goes, I think it wouldn't harm anyone if there was a wall and would have a net positive effect if you exclude the price to earnings ratio in terms of how many jobs are we getting as a result of keeping more illegals out of our country. I believe that we need to keep as many illegal immigrants out as possible, but it is not worth the time and money trump is willing to spend on doing this; the wall would cost billions of tax payer dollars that could be spent on much more world-change events such as the war on ISIS and the difficult war on terrorism.

Secondly, on the liberal reaction to Trump, calling him a racist:

I don't believe trump is a racist, rather I believe he is slightly prejudice in terms of religion: he directly relates the muslim religion to terror. I believe that relationship is somewhat well founded but I definitely do not believe that all muslims are terrorists and all terrorists are muslims. I believe that trump should stop making this connection because its only true for a very small amount of people, and the people who do not fit this demographic are harmed because of this.



I'm happy Trump beat Hillary though, not because Trump is great (I really dislike him) but because he will cause real change and Hillary simply would have kept the country in the same state that it was. I also hate political correctness, but love equality. Political correctness is disgusting.
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Old Feb 17, 2017   #2
Ele
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Originally Posted by Veoo View Post
I believe that relationship is somewhat well founded but I definitely do not believe that all muslims are terrorists and all terrorists are muslims. I believe that trump should stop making this connection because its only true for a very small amount of people, and the people who do not fit this demographic are harmed because of this.

I don't think he's ever made that connection you say he did. If he did, can you source a direct quote?

My thoughts on the whole situation:
People are either for open borders or for borders. If you're for borders, that means you believe that we have the right to determine our country's demographic makeup. Usually, we don't want any foreign group growing too big/troublesome. Irish people were banned at one point, Germans banned and so on. What I'm getting at is that it's not necessarily racist to decide that some groups from some specific part of the world should/shouldn't be allowed to pass through our borders - It's our right to decide that. A lot of people who support halting immigration from these countries aren't racist, they're just frightened by terrorism. That said, there are people who support it out of racism.

On illegal immigration, if you agree that borders are a good thing, surely there must be consequences for bypassing them illegally. If you do nothing, you just encourage illegal immigration. Action should therefore be taken.

If you're a person that thinks open borders is a good thing, then none of what I just typed (or what Trump is doing) is justifiable.
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Old Mar 1, 2017   #3
Omiwom
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Originally Posted by Veoo View Post

If someone comes over here illegally and has kids and we have to deport them back feeling bad for them because they have kids that are US citizens is ridiculous.

They're not guilt tripping us. Do you think they came to America and conspired to fuck with us and make us feel bad that we have to tear their family apart? No. Do you understand what they risk to come here? They're not doing it to fucking spite us. They leave their entire life behind. They could be poor and desperately wanting a new opportunity. And what better place to go than the fabled America, ''the Land of the Free'', and ''the Land of Opportunity.'' If we really don't want immigrants, maybe we should stop advertising our country as a paradise. But as it stands, immigrants are not the problem. Huge corporations can more than afford to raise the minimum wage to strengthen our middle and lower class, they just don't want to. So they pin the blame on Mexicans instead. By the way, you can call it 'ridiculous', but it's still happening regardless of what you call it. So something needs to be done about it. Otherwise children and their parents will suffer heavily.

Oh, and while we're at it, why do we need to enforce our country's boundaries so damn hard? This is my own opinion, but borders are just imaginary lines designed by humanity. This might sound like some Hippie cliche thing to say, but we're all humans and we're all living on the same planet. We should share it, instead of walling people out. It's pretty damn arrogant to think we own land to the point of preventing other people from coming to it.

I don't believe trump is a racist, rather I believe he is slightly prejudice in terms of religion

He doesn't care about other people. Ever notice how everything he says is in relation to himself? Go look up Narcissistic Personality Disorder. That's what he has. He only cares about himself, his family, his brand and his money. He doesn't care about Americans. And we can't have a leader who is unable to empathize with the people.


I'm happy Trump beat Hillary though, not because Trump is great (I really dislike him) but because he will cause real change and Hillary simply would have kept the country in the same state that it was. I also hate political correctness, but love equality. Political correctness is disgusting.

America has been stable, fine, and on a good path for the past few years. He is fucking things up. He is making things worse. All the problems you think are wrong with America are just propaganda coming from him. And he makes them up so you'll vote for him. You know he's crossing the line when he wants you to prioritize what he says before the media. Proper media is what keeps the country free. If he takes power over it, America becomes a literal dictatorship.
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Old Mar 2, 2017   #4
Ele
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Originally Posted by Omiwom View Post
America has been stable, fine, and on a good path for the past few years.

Good path? I think not. Check the income inequality (google Gini coefficient). Steadily increasing. Why? It's not just that the rich are getting richer, the middle class has gotten wayyyyy poorer. America's inability to compete in the globalised market has completely tanked its export-oriented industries.

A great thing Trump did was he actually scrapped the next big push for increased globalisation, the TPP deal. That deal would have just exacerbated these aforementioned problems (in addition to giving corporations crazy leeway to do whatever they want).

So there were/are problems. The American economy is going down the shitter along with its fractured, non-cohesive society. I doubt Trump can fix it, but I doubt anyone can. Y'all gonna need to revolt if you want shit changed.
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Old Mar 2, 2017   #5
spcr
 
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So you guys need a Mexican opinion so here Im:

I dont want to post a broad opinion but honestly, as a mexican, I think my country should implement or support its citizens to decrease the amount of immigrants, I understand that México should keep their people but either way who will do the tough jobs in USA if theres no immigrants? In the other side, theres already a wall all over the Nile river(Río Nilo), I dont see how a wall would work, Mexicans will find a way to cross the border anyways(Waste of money that we will never pay, we dont care Trump sending troops or that type of shit) Another point to consider is the threats from Trump to Mexico and Arab countries, his Narcissistic ideas are ridiculous and most of the world supports Mexico even though United States is the world leader.


I dont want to post further information since I can guarantee I wont have support in this forum since it lacks of latinos who can share their point of view
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Last edited by spcr; Mar 2, 2017 at 06:22 AM..
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Old Mar 2, 2017   #6
Omiwom
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Originally Posted by Ele View Post
Good path? I think not. Check the income inequality (google Gini coefficient). Steadily increasing. Why? It's not just that the rich are getting richer, the middle class has gotten wayyyyy poorer. America's inability to compete in the globalised market has completely tanked its export-oriented industries.

A great thing Trump did was he actually scrapped the next big push for increased globalisation, the TPP deal. That deal would have just exacerbated these aforementioned problems (in addition to giving corporations crazy leeway to do whatever they want).

So there were/are problems. The American economy is going down the shitter along with its fractured, non-cohesive society. I doubt Trump can fix it, but I doubt anyone can. Y'all gonna need to revolt if you want shit changed.

So you want to put the fate of the 99% in the hands of a billionaire who is part of the 1%? He is dividing our society even further apart. Do you actually think Trump cares more about us than his fortune? He is in favor of the 1%. For godsake, he's loosening restrictions on the NRA and major food companies.

By the way, economy isn't the only thing that matters. What about our education system? Or climate change? Or even how happy the average American citizen is? All things he doesn't really give a hoot about.

If a plane is crashing towards the ground, you don't fucking say ''Well, we're all screwed, so let the monkey take the wheel.'' You look for the best qualified passenger to land the thing and save everybody.

Last edited by Omiwom; Mar 2, 2017 at 06:41 PM..
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Old Mar 3, 2017   #7
Ele
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Originally Posted by Omiwom View Post
So you want to put the fate of the 99% in the hands of a billionaire who is part of blah blah blah

Mate, all I did was attack your bullshit claim that America was chugging along just fine.

Don't get so wrapped up in thinking along ideological party lines. Not everyone who disagrees with you is an ardent Trump supporter.
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Old Mar 3, 2017   #8
Flow
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I hope you realize that Hillary Clinton is worth somewhere between 30 and 50 million dollars.
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Old Mar 3, 2017   #9
ThePirateKing
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Isn't Trump doing the same thing Hitler did?
Blaming the world's/country's problems mostly(kinda all) on a specific group(s) of people?
I don't follow him too much, but from what I've heard, he's blaming everything on immigrants,
so he wants to get rid of them for the most part...
It feels like he's doing/saying everything for his selfish and egotistical ideas and schemes..
Like Omi said, he cares not about the average America, nor America as a whole.
The past makes you wanna die out of regret, and future makes you depressed out of anxiety. So by elimination, the present is likely the happiest time.
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Old Mar 4, 2017   #10
Flow
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Holy false equivalency batman. Deporting people who knowingly broke the law =/= mass genocide.
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