people playing: 106, servers online: 36, games played: 136,936,042 Top Player: Savior4

  Toribash Community » General » Discussion
Register FAQ General Rules Community
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 3 Weeks Ago   #1
&Elite
Mushu Legend
 
God Belt
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 895
Clan: fl0w
Server: public6



Net Neutrality
So apparently the FCC (Federal Communications Commission) plans to repeal/completely eliminate remove Net Neutrality laws over the united stated, by that meaning your ISPs can do multiple things:
  • charge for specific websites
  • slow down access to websites (in return killing them)
  • create 'packages' for things even like google
  • completely block website access

if the vote were to be passed on the voting date (December 14th) you would also no longer be able to be 'anonymous' as the net neutrality laws forces ISPs to treat all data the same, but without it, it means they can spy in on your data, and see everything you do.

By blocking websites they can force you to only be able to visit certain websites, such as blocking something as this (toribash), blocking access to youtube or putting it behind a paywall to even watch things that dont use youtube red.

overall the repeal could be horrible, and fuck over the united states as a whole, and me being a somewhat poor person i can't move to somewhere like the UK to escape this bullshit.

Overall, i'm afraid this may or may not be the end of a 'free internet' per-say.

Sources:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/21/t...eutrality.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.5bf1b138cfa1
https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/21/ne...lity-comments/

Team Mushu Leader | Coders Club Leader | Fl0w Member

Think you have what it takes? Join Team Mushu!
"An eye for an eye and we all go blind"

Elite is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 3 Weeks Ago   #2
PixelateTori
 
3rd Dan Black Belt
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 996



Allowing internet providers to essentially limit what you look at is scary.
They can easily block youtube or other entertainment websites and say "You didn't pay for the entertainment package, pay $5 to but it." Or straight up allow people to buy faster internet. They can even block any competition's websites, forcing people to only use websites the provider approves of (anything they own).

It's an extremely scary time. What people look at should not be dictated by the internet service provider, and they should not be allowed to block you from using certain websites.
PixelateTori is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2 Weeks Ago   #3
Fates
Super User
 
Master Belt
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,815
Clan: All Stars



Why is this not the main topic of discussion, THIS IS SERIOUS PEOPLE!!! If internet providers partner with gaming companies this could effect the GAMING INDUSTRY AND EVERYONE IN IT. Your favorite games could be brushed aside in a rule-less internet. This doesn't just effect websites, this effects EVERYTHING INTERNET. If you think just because you don't live in the U.S you are safe, Well let me tell you once your government realizes just how much money is at stake doing this you could very well find yourself in our situation. This isn't just stupid, its dangerous. I genuinely fear for Ajit Pai's safety at this point, he will be messing with some peoples livelihoods.
[VIBE] 2015~2016 | Team Pokemon | [Origin] 2014~2015 | Team Aikido | [Obey] ~Because Frost Said So...
Fates is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2 Weeks Ago   #4
Footlox
Senior Member
 
C O R A L Belt
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,149



If this happened i think the market would eventually correct itself. One of the many competing ISPs would offer "net neutrality" as part of their featured service and as customers flock to that provider the rest of the ISPs would follow that fashion.
-----
Or it will all be a clusterfuck.
Leader of Team Aikido
IRL Jiu Jitsu and Muay Thai Practitioner
Formidable Leg Grabber..

Last edited by Footlox; 2 Weeks Ago at 08:29 PM.. Reason: <24 hour edit/bump
Footlox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2 Weeks Ago   #5
Shook
Event Fartist
 
Blue Belt
Join Date: Jan 2007
Clan: [T]



Originally Posted by Fates View Post
If you think just because you don't live in the U.S you are safe, Well let me tell you once your government realizes just how much money is at stake doing this you could very well find yourself in our situation.

The main problem is not so much that i think i'm safe as it's being unable to do anything about what's going on in 'murica. I mean sure, i could write to relevant people over there, but they're going to give exactly zero shits about some dude from across the atlantic who they don't make any money on.

Don't get me wrong, this is a DEEPLY concerning turn of events, and although Denmark is slightly less in the grasp of corporate jackasses, i absolutely don't doubt that the politicians would see this as an excellent way to squeeze even more money out of the population (and then they'll use that for tax reductions, whoop-de-fuckin'-doo). All i'm hoping for, if this repeal gets passed, is that people will figure out a way to either bypass the inevitable restrictions or otherwise punch the relevant people directly in the dick wallet. Or, if we're lucky, there'll be a few ISPs left with a shred of integrity who choose to maintain net neutrality without making it a Full Net Neutrality Package (only 20$/month!).

But, alas, anyone outside of USA can't really do much of anything besides scowling and shaking their fists angrily. Even if we could, pathos alone would matter zilch to these people; the only way to make them listen is if their bottom line drops.

Originally Posted by PixelateTori View Post
Or straight up allow people to buy faster internet.

... This is already a thing though. Last time i checked, connection speed and monthly cost are generally proportional. :v
The rest of it though, yes, very true. It could very well end up being like it is in China, where you can basically only access goverment-approved websites due to the extreme internet censorship they have. As of right now, the net neutrality repeal is for money and not for propaganda, but unfortunately, it could EASILY swing in that direction too.
<Blam|Homework> oiubt veubg
deviantart page | also patreon if you feel rich
Shook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2 Weeks Ago   #6
Oracle
Chatterbox
 
8th Dan Black Belt
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 5,649
Clan: [T]



Originally Posted by Aquita View Post
If this happened i think the market would eventually correct itself. One of the many competing ISPs would offer "net neutrality" as part of their featured service and as customers flock to that provider the rest of the ISPs would follow that fashion.
-----
Or it will all be a clusterfuck.

I'll explain why it would be a problem, and net neutrality is definitely at risk of being stripped away with little recourse for customers to contest it. It requires understanding a little about how America's infrastructure is.

First, big ISPs generally do not compete with each other in America. They are "competing" ISPs in that they are all ISPs providing services in America, but if you look at their coverage you'll find there's very little, if any, overlap of big ISPs coverage in a region. As such, big ISPs hold a regional monopoly over internet access. Considering how long this has been going on, it's almost certain that there's some degree of collusion between big ISPs to shut down small competitors in an area, and carve out the American country between themselves. This sets the environment for strong arm business tactics, and gives little to no opportunity for a consumer to just go to a competing ISP. Government-run ISPs are rare, and often only function in a small regional capacity, and still require transmitting across larger ISPs networks.

Which leads to the second problem. It only takes one jackass company with a money boner to fuck over everybody else because of how the Internet works.

Very simply put, the Internet is a bunch of interconnected networks, and ISPs are entities that have invested in the infrastructure necessary to facilitate communication between these networks. By this nature, it means that traffic that goes from point A to point B could travel through several different networks and, by extension, several different ISPs who host those connections. It only takes one of those ISPs along that path to hold traffic for ransom (aka, not abiding by net neutrality) for service to deteriorate for everybody who uses that path. Because there's little to no competition in America between ISPs, it often means that there's no other efficient option available. So that ISP can effectively hold everybody's Internet for ransom unless their dickhead demands are met.

Which can lead to a worst case scenario where every ISP decides to hold other ISPs for ransom. This leads to one of two things. One, the Internet becomes fragmented, since ISPs will inevitably pass the cost of "premium" access (aka, access to networks that the ISP doesn't own) to the consumer. This is the threat of no net neutrality that most people are afraid of, and you can see instances of failed net neutrality in places like Spain and Portugal, where there is no regulation enforcing it. There, ISPs charge you extra to access more sites than the default package.

Two, it's possible every major ISP decides to collude with each other to no longer hold each other's traffic for ransom. While this may look good initially, it's a dangerous situation to have. Competing services should have little collusion, since collusion between all major competitors can result in an oligopoly. Essentially, the risk is that now that they're collaborating to not throttle each other's traffic, they may collaborate to now raise all their prices, or all provide worse service. If their "competitors" are all providing the same equally bad service, then there can be no market correction. The multi-company equivalent of a monopoly has been established. There are laws in place against this, but enforcement is dodgy, and it requires proving that the collusion exists, which is difficult.


Basically, nothing is inherently lost by maintaining net neutrality as law, despite what Ajit Pai and his corporate buddies say, but there is a lot to lose by making it optional. Market corrections don't happen with ISPs because ISPs don't have any competitors.
nyan :3
Youtube Channel i sometimes post videos of other games
Oracle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2 Weeks Ago   #7
Platavion
Item Forger
 
Brown Belt
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 466



Cant vpn solve this
Platavion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2 Weeks Ago   #8
Fee
Ambassador of Peace
 
Custom Belt
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,080



Originally Posted by Platavion View Post
Cant vpn solve this

Maybe. But you need to consider some points:

Let's take for example a company like Netflix. If an ISP were to put pressure on Netflix directly, and in turn Netflix ends up paying the ransom to your ISP, the result is more likely to be reflected in the subscription cost of Netflix increasing. Not in the extra cost of having access to Netflix charged by an ISP. This knock on effect of price increases cannot be combated by a VPN.

Secondly, the ISP could effectively slow down connection to known VPNs to close this workaround. Regardless, VPNs have always been a privacy tool, not a speed tool. They have always been a bit slower due to how VPN tunneling works by encrypting your packets. This results in more data to send and therefore slower connections.
Fee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2 Weeks Ago   #9
Parrot
Polly Wants A Cracker
 
7th Dan Black Belt
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 601
Clan: All Stars



The repeal of Net Neutrality is a very scary thing. As stated in OP, they can put certain sites behind paywalls, and slow your internet when you attempt to access certain websites. I am 100% for Net Neutrality. I think that if I'm paying Cox to provide me with internet services, that I shouldn't be stonewalled when I want to watch Netflix, or Youtube.

Consider the implications of Net Neutrality. If they can see which websites you view, because this is necessary to determine whether or no you need to pay an extra fee in order to access it, whats to stop them from always viewing your browser searches and websites you visit? The invasion of privacy would be limitless.

It also doesn't hurt to mention the fact that Ajat Pai also has connections in multiple organizations that would benefit from this. He used to work for Verizon, and also has had quite the bias towards the Sinclair Broadcast Group. This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, because why would someone be so dead-set on doing something as controversial as this unless he had a motive.

Let's take a look at the Sinclair Broadcast Group. Recently, two Democrats in the House of Representatives have asked for a probe into the FCC, though mainly pointed at Ajit Pai's personal bias towards them. Basically what they are saying is that recent legislation that the FCC has passed greatly benefits this single organization. These accusations are fairly without evidence, but it definitely warrants a greater look into the issue.

I believe that the appeal of Net Neutrality will be passed, as the FCC is mainly a conservative organization at the moment. However when it reaches Congress, it will be appealed as many of the conservatives in congress disagree with the actions Ajit is taking.
<opraaa> i just have an uncontrollable lust for power
<opraaa> That's the only reason I'm SMOD
Parrot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2 Weeks Ago   #10
&Elite
Mushu Legend
 
God Belt
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 895
Clan: fl0w
Server: public6



Originally Posted by Parrot View Post
The repeal of Net Neutrality is a very scary thing. As stated in OP, they can put certain sites behind paywalls, and slow your internet when you attempt to access certain websites. I am 100% for Net Neutrality. I think that if I'm paying Cox to provide me with internet services, that I shouldn't be stonewalled when I want to watch Netflix, or Youtube.

Consider the implications of Net Neutrality. If they can see which websites you view, because this is necessary to determine whether or no you need to pay an extra fee in order to access it, whats to stop them from always viewing your browser searches and websites you visit? The invasion of privacy would be limitless.

It also doesn't hurt to mention the fact that Ajat Pai also has connections in multiple organizations that would benefit from this. He used to work for Verizon, and also has had quite the bias towards the Sinclair Broadcast Group. This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, because why would someone be so dead-set on doing something as controversial as this unless he had a motive.

Let's take a look at the Sinclair Broadcast Group. Recently, two Democrats in the House of Representatives have asked for a probe into the FCC, though mainly pointed at Ajit Pai's personal bias towards them. Basically what they are saying is that recent legislation that the FCC has passed greatly benefits this single organization. These accusations are fairly without evidence, but it definitely warrants a greater look into the issue.

I believe that the appeal of Net Neutrality will be passed, as the FCC is mainly a conservative organization at the moment. However when it reaches Congress, it will be appealed as many of the conservatives in congress disagree with the actions Ajit is taking.

Let's hope you're right parrot, as im legit worried about this lol

Team Mushu Leader | Coders Club Leader | Fl0w Member

Think you have what it takes? Join Team Mushu!
"An eye for an eye and we all go blind"

Elite is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:08 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
ragdoll fighting game physics fighting game ragdoll fighting physics funmotion joints martial arts karate pc mac free game turn based game