This post has a lot of errors. I'm just gonna answer in bold inside the quote so it'll be easier to read.

Let me also quote an article about child abuse and neglect.

"Emotional and Psychological Consequences

While there is no single set of behaviors that is characteristic of all children who have been abused and neglected, the presence of emotional and psychological problems among many maltreated children is well documented. Clinicians and researchers report behaviors that range from passive and withdrawn to active and aggressive. Physically and sexually abused children often exhibit both internalizing and externalizing problems. Emotional and psychosocial problems identified among individuals who were maltreated as children include:

Low self-esteem
Depression and anxiety
Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)
Attachment difficulties
Eating disorders
Poor peer relations
Self-injurious behavior (e.g., suicide attempts)

Maltreated children who developed insecure attachments to caregivers may become more mistrustful of others and less ready to learn from adults. They also may experience difficulties in understanding the emotions of others, regulating their own emotions, and in forming and maintaining relationships with peers."

So readers don't get confused, I'm in the bold.
The bold/italic text in parenthesis is my reply.

After reading your reply, this is my response below.

Not all children that get beatings as punishment turn out the same.
True.
Every child is different. Some rebel, some learn from it.
Possibly, but you're not presenting the full truth here.
People who "learn" from it usually walk away with mental issues or insecurities, giving them problems lasting throughout adulthood.

(You didn't mention that learning could also be accepting the consequence with no psychological effects. Like you mentioned about my post, I will call you out on yours.)

Don't forget that parents judgement can fall in the heat of the moment, which is directly dangerous.

(I never said I've forgotten. It was never a part of my statement to begin with. You are talking about parents that have poor judgement regarding the well-being of their child to make poor choices when stressed, not in the right state of mind or under the influence that causes them to harm their child in an abusive way.)

Same goes for parents who believe talking to them instead of beating is a good option.
People who support beating in this thread have claimed that you can beat your child wrong but never seem to realize that you can talk to your child wrong too.
If you don't understand the situation other than your child being unpleasant in your opinion, you aren't very likely to handle it well.
You're actually very likely to, in your frustration and delusion, beat your child.

(You've just stated physical and verbal abuse. When I reference talking to your child, I am referring to parents who sit and listen and discuss the situation not in an abusive way. One thing readers need to realize that there is a fine line between discipline and abuse. All that you have stated was that people aren't aware of verbal abuse and that if you don't have a good approach to a situation then it wouldn't go well. My answer to that is that we can't change every parent in the world. Regardless how many guidelines or information that is out there for them to utilize, there will never be a set parenting style. Humans aren't perfect and will make mistakes, some more greater than others. To learn from and do better is what parents should hope and achieve.)

Those children could either respect or take advantage of their parents due to how they comprehend the situation. From my experience, I've encountered strict parents, the types where they would yell at the kid, pull their ears in the middle of the grocery store, to the parents that let their kids throw a tantrum and do the "ignore" treatment. I've seen a lady walk up to a mother and called her a "bad mother" for ignoring her child in a grocery store, (mind this kid looked like 4-5years old) sitting on the ground throwing a tantrum like a spoiled brat. Most kids just want attention. That's all it is.
Hnnngg... No. From an early age kids explore their boundaries. They learn on their own what they can and can not do, just like how they learn what they can and can not eat.
We're not born English-speakers, you know.
Trial and error without error explains itself.
Also, If you ignore your child, you're neglecting it. Neglected kids often find ways to get their parents attention, in whatever way works best.
If you only care for your child when he's slamming food on the table, that's obviously what he'll keep doing just to interact with his mother.

(Basically you are stating that everyone is born innocent. What I am saying in my example above is that children want attention and they can do it in different ways. From a parents point of view their remedies may be different. If you want to relate what you said to what I said, lets say that a child throwing a tantrum in the store. In the child's mind, something is wrong. Reason for the tantrum. So something caused them to step outside their boundaries to only find out that the end result wasn't to their satisfaction. In cause they didn't get what they wanted and in effect they throw a tantrum. Parent then analyzes the situation and comes with their best solution.
To neglect a child is considered abuse and should not be tolerated. In the example above the parent analyzed the situation and decided to let the child cry it out. The reason the parent did that was to teach the child that he/she can't get their way by throwing a tantrum. Nothing more, nothing less. So in conclusion, I see no error here.)

Some kids only see their dads when they get in trouble and get scoldings from him, so in return to get their dads attention they act up so he could go and talk to them. Parents should find what disciplinary action is best for their child because like I said earlier, all children are different.
We may be different in terms of personality, skillsets and memories but we're really not that different at all in how we interpret/react to being struck.
(For example, fighting is something we've known for a long time, unlike things like personality that we only developed when we became more of a social species)
Do you really think that kids, humans in general, are so different?
When I was about to be born my parents simply got a book that explained kids psychology. It explained to them why, how, and in what age I would do this or that.
Toy-makers are aware of this process, which is why you have differing toys for each age-group.
Either way, as a result of actually looking it up my parents were able to just handle everything I did without violence at all.
I hope you can at least agree with me that reading up on raising children should be a must for every parent, no matter your stance on hitting kids?
It may only be a coincidence that it is discouraged by psychologists everywhere you go.

(Lets go back to what I said and clarify a little more so you can understand. Seems like you tend to drift off the point of what the message is stating.
My point I am trying to make is that in this world today, there are parents that raise their family where the mother and father share separate roles as where it comes to discipline, the father is the disciplinary parent not the mother. Whenever a situation arises where the child needs discipline, the mother would call on the father to handle the situation. I am not saying that this is right or wrong. I'm just using this as an example that this practice is still in use today.
Books are to be used as guidelines to help parents that are starting a family or are encountering situations where they are not knowledgeable on how to go about doing certain things. One thing about being a parent is knowing what is best for your child and your child's well being. If a parent chooses beating as a form of discipline its the parents responsibility to control and to understand the difference between discipline and abuse. For the parents who are incapable of comprehending the difference between them, we can only report them if we have a legitimate reason or suspicion of child abuse.)

Let me also quote an article about child abuse and neglect.

"Emotional and Psychological Consequences

While there is no single set of behaviors that is characteristic of all children who have been abused and neglected, the presence of emotional and psychological problems among many maltreated children is well documented. Clinicians and researchers report behaviors that range from passive and withdrawn to active and aggressive. Physically and sexually abused children often exhibit both internalizing and externalizing problems. Emotional and psychosocial problems identified among individuals who were maltreated as children include:

Low self-esteem
Depression and anxiety
Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)
Attachment difficulties
Eating disorders
Poor peer relations
Self-injurious behavior (e.g., suicide attempts)

This is getting messy to read.
Also wow, I'm blown away at how many of my points you've tried twisting or just didn't comprehend.
I sense a moderator coming to close this thread pretty soon...
I'll respond in parenthesis underlined then, I guess? Let's keep the trend going.


If there's a third person reading this I would like to encourage posting your stance on what is being said.

Not all children that get beatings as punishment turn out the same.

True.
Every child is different. Some rebel, some learn from it.
Possibly, but you're not presenting the full truth here.
People who "learn" from it usually walk away with mental issues or insecurities, giving them problems lasting throughout adulthood.

(You didn't mention that learning could also be accepting the consequence with no psychological effects. Like you mentioned about my post, I will call you out on yours.)

(I was fully aware of what I wrote and what if implied. You don't seem to think further on your response here however. Since you're not disagreeing with what I said, including your clarification, do you suggest we play Russian roulette with our children?
What is your point when the big majority raised this way are still affected negatively?)

-I clarified that you only partially answered with your argument. To make it easier for you to understand, I replied by saying that "You didn't mention that learning could also be accepting the consequence with no psychological effects."
--

Don't forget that parents judgement can fall in the heat of the moment, which is directly dangerous.

(You are talking about parents that have poor judgement regarding the well-being of their child to make poor choices when stressed, not in the right state of mind or under the influence that causes them to harm their child in an abusive way.)

(No, I'm talking about people with kids. Humans.
Please do not try to distance us from the people who go too far by claiming they have to be in the wrong state of mind or under the influence.
You, me and everybody else in this thread have the capability to overreact.)

-What kind of response is that? Listen to what you've said...
"Don't forget that parents judgement can fall in the heat of the moment,"
...What do you imply that means? Apparently parents have poor judgment...which I mentioned." I am not distancing anything. Just adding to what you are saying, just as you have been doing.

Same goes for parents who believe talking to them instead of beating is a good option.

People who support beating in this thread have claimed that you can beat your child wrong but never seem to realize that you can talk to your child wrong too.
If you don't understand the situation other than your child being unpleasant in your opinion, you aren't very likely to handle it well.
You're actually very likely to, in your frustration and delusion, beat your child.

(You've just stated physical and verbal abuse. When I reference talking to your child, I am referring to parents who sit and listen and discuss the situation not in an abusive way.)

(It was very clear that you were talking about discussing, not verbal abuse.
It is very clear that I never mentioned verbal abuse in my response, what caused you to think I was?
Your argument was that children rebel to both methods or raising and my counter argument was pointing out that you can ofc raise your child the wrong way even if you never hit them.)

- It was very clear that you were talking about discussing, not verbal abuse. It is very clear that I never mentioned verbal abuse in my response, what caused you to think I was?

"People who support beating in this thread have claimed that you can beat your child wrong but never seem to realize that you can talk to your child wrong too."
If this doesn't mean verbal abuse then please clarify.

Your argument was that children rebel to both methods or raising and my counter argument was pointing out that you can ofc raise your child the wrong way even if you never hit them.) "If you don't understand the situation other than your child being unpleasant in your opinion, you aren't very likely to handle it well.
You're actually very likely to, in your frustration and delusion, beat your child. "
I answered this already.
--


One thing readers need to realize that there is a fine line between discipline and abuse. All that you have stated was that people aren't aware of verbal abuse and that if you don't have a good approach to a situation then it wouldn't go well. My answer to that is that we can't change every parent in the world. Regardless how many guidelines or information that is out there for them to utilize, there will never be a set parenting style. Humans aren't perfect and will make mistakes, some more greater than others. To learn from and do better is what parents should hope and achieve.)

(Since your argument is based on your misinterpretation, it is meaningless to respond to it until you correct it accordingly.)

- There is no misinterpretation, so I rest my case if you've got nothing to say.
--


Those children could either respect or take advantage of their parents due to how they comprehend the situation. From my experience, I've encountered strict parents, the types where they would yell at the kid, pull their ears in the middle of the grocery store, to the parents that let their kids throw a tantrum and do the "ignore" treatment. I've seen a lady walk up to a mother and called her a "bad mother" for ignoring her child in a grocery store, (mind this kid looked like 4-5years old) sitting on the ground throwing a tantrum like a spoiled brat. Most kids just want attention. That's all it is.
Hnnngg... No. From an early age kids explore their boundaries. They learn on their own what they can and can not do, just like how they learn what they can and can not eat.
We're not born English-speakers, you know.
Trial and error without error explains itself.
Also, If you ignore your child, you're neglecting it. Neglected kids often find ways to get their parents attention, in whatever way works best.
If you only care for your child when he's slamming food on the table, that's obviously what he'll keep doing just to interact with his mother.

(Basically you are stating that everyone is born innocent. (What I am saying in my example above is that children want attention and they can do it in different ways.)

(That is ludicrous.. I said nothing of the sort, please quote where I implied that.
I provided a logical reasoning that proves you wrong.)

- "Hnnngg... No. From an early age kids explore their boundaries. They learn on their own what they can and can not do, just like how they learn what they can and can not eat.
We're not born English-speakers, you know.
Trial and error without error explains itself."

Here is the quote. If you read what you've just wrote, it clearly mentions how kids innocently explore boundaries, innocently learn on their own what they can and can not do.....
They are innocent in language because they start from scratch when they are born and trial and error without error explains itself, just sums up what you've just stated.
Instead of trying to look over and beyond the comments, try and understand what is being said.
--


(From a parents point of view their remedies may be different. If you want to relate what you said to what I said, lets say that a child throwing a tantrum in the store. In the child's mind, something is wrong. Reason for the tantrum. So something caused them to step outside their boundaries to only find out that the end result wasn't to their satisfaction. In cause they didn't get what they wanted and in effect they throw a tantrum. Parent then analyzes the situation and comes with their best solution.
To neglect a child is considered abuse and should not be tolerated. In the example above the parent analyzed the situation and decided to let the child cry it out. The reason the parent did that was to teach the child that he/she can't get their way by throwing a tantrum. Nothing more, nothing less. So in conclusion, I see no error here.)

(This does not seem credible at all. Could you please provide some kind of source to some of these claims?
As of now, it merely looks like what you imagine is going on.

-My source is myself. I don't need to explain more in dept if you can't even understand this. Unless you have children yourself, then by all means please counter argue. I know from experience. I've been through parenthood and my experience and knowledge are learned from every day experiences. When you watch your first child being born, changing their diapers, staying up with him/her when they are throwing a tantrum, you tend to learn these things. Being a parent myself, I have done this 3 times. So please enlighten me on something that I don't already know.

also please proofread what you write before posting. This argument was filled with grammatical errors and nonsensical sentences which makes your argument weak to nonexistent.
This discussion will end if you do not use correct English.)

-Okay, I never knew this was an English contest and who said my English is perfect? I know and probably all the readers know what I am saying. So please end these petty insults.


--


Some kids only see their dads when they get in trouble and get scoldings from him, so in return to get their dads attention they act up so he could go and talk to them. Parents should find what disciplinary action is best for their child because like I said earlier, all children are different.
We may be different in terms of personality, skillsets and memories but we're really not that different at all in how we interpret/react to being struck.
(For example, fighting is something we've known for a long time, unlike things like personality that we only developed when we became more of a social species)
Do you really think that kids, humans in general, are so different?
When I was about to be born my parents simply got a book that explained kids psychology. It explained to them why, how, and in what age I would do this or that.
Toy-makers are aware of this process, which is why you have differing toys for each age-group.
Either way, as a result of actually looking it up my parents were able to just handle everything I did without violence at all.
I hope you can at least agree with me that reading up on raising children should be a must for every parent, no matter your stance on hitting kids?
It may only be a coincidence that it is discouraged by psychologists everywhere you go.

(Lets go back to what I said and clarify a little more so you can understand. Seems like you tend to drift off the point of what the message is stating.
My point I am trying to make is that in this world today, there are parents that raise their family where the mother and father share separate roles as where it comes to discipline, the father is the disciplinary parent not the mother. Whenever a situation arises where the child needs discipline, the mother would call on the father to handle the situation. I am not saying that this is right or wrong. I'm just using this as an example that this practice is still in use today.

(Wait, why would you bring this up if you didn't mean for it to be relevant with the topic?)

- Please read my 1st argument and 2nd counter argument before replying with these nonsense remarks.


--


Books are to be used as guidelines to help parents that are starting a family or are encountering situations where they are not knowledgeable on how to go about doing certain things. One thing about being a parent is knowing what is best for your child and your child's well being. If a parent chooses beating as a form of discipline its the parents responsibility to control and to understand the difference between discipline and abuse. For the parents who are incapable of comprehending the difference between them, we can only report them if we have a legitimate reason or suspicion of child abuse.)

(Now you're just pouring out the obvious in lack of a real argument.
Is your point that we should not get involved since it's the parents responsibility unless we see damage?
Do you not think that it is important to educate our peers on their harmful ways?)

-This goes back to credibility. My answer to that is experience.
--

Let me also quote an article about child abuse and neglect.

"Emotional and Psychological Consequences

While there is no single set of behaviors that is characteristic of all children who have been abused and neglected, the presence of emotional and psychological problems among many maltreated children is well documented. Clinicians and researchers report behaviors that range from passive and withdrawn to active and aggressive. Physically and sexually abused children often exhibit both internalizing and externalizing problems. Emotional and psychosocial problems identified among individuals who were maltreated as children include:

Low self-esteem
Depression and anxiety
Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)
Attachment difficulties
Eating disorders
Poor peer relations
Self-injurious behavior (e.g., suicide attempts)

Maltreated children who developed insecure attachments to caregivers may become more mistrustful of others and less ready to learn from adults. They also may experience difficulties in understanding the emotions of others, regulating their own emotions, and in forming and maintaining relationships with peers."

(We can easily copy/paste things off the internet to prove a point and they could be facts, but the focus on this discussion really is the well being of the children regarding discipline.)

(Proofread, for gods sake..
If it is so easy, please go find me a scientific article in favor of your statements.
Providing source does not contradict the focus of our discussion, which is a remarkable statement to begin with.)

-Like I mentioned earlier, who said my English is perfect? My reply to you asking for sources or articles is what I've been trying to mention above...

(Books are to be used as guidelines to help parents that are starting a family or are encountering situations where they are not knowledgeable on how to go about doing certain things. One thing about being a parent is knowing what is best for your child and your child's well being. If a parent chooses beating as a form of discipline its the parents responsibility to control and to understand the difference between discipline and abuse. For the parents who are incapable of comprehending the difference between them, we can only report them if we have a legitimate reason or suspicion of child abuse.)

Need I say more?
--


(Like I stated above its the parents responsibility to understand the guidelines between discipline and abuse. Both beating and verbal disciplinary tactics are fine if they meet that criteria.)

(If they meet the criteria that the parents understand the guidelines?
What guidelines are you referring to here, could you link me some official list?
How did beating becoming fine again after I proved to you it is detrimental to raising a child?)

If there's a third person reading this I would like to encourage posting your stance on what is being said.

- Hopefully to end this argument, my arguments are based off of real life experiences, my children are well behaved and are attending grade school. My credibility is there, since my oldest is of 8 years we can say that's how much knowledge of parenting I have so far. If you have children then I hope you can understand where I am coming from. If not, try and ask someone outside this discussion like a family member to discuss this with you because as far as I can see it, this argument is over.

That summed it up pretty well, although there are always alternatives to beating your child. Like maybe take away their prized possession/privilege. I always thought beating is a bit too extreme especially when most parents abuse it.

I find this very saddening that despite my efforts to explain you seem to twist or be uncooperative in trying to at least understand what I'm saying.
It is not about opinions, which I tried proving. Nor is it about experience but facts and research into the topic.
We've come to the point where we're simply disagreeing or arguing about what was said or not said.

Let me just upload this screenshot of the idea behind this mans words.

to be honest if my kid did something borderline retarded id just play linkin park - in the end for like a few hours on repeat at full volume
as a child who was punished physically, i dont think its right. yes it set me 'straight', but it lead to me basically hating my parents. if you want your kids to hate you go ahead and do to them what someone would get arrested for if they did to you.

you know what hating your parents leads to? violence, drugs, alchohol, you name it and i will want it just to spite them because they made me a shitty person

Yes, but a kid should know not to do stuff like
because they should know not to do that. People make mistakes and a parent should teach kids a lesson when they do something wrong.

no, not exactly. If a parent is going to teach their kids something by beating them, the kid isn't going to retain a memory of what not to do, they'll retain a memory of that fear and then react appropriately to evade feeling that fear again. Meaning they'll lie, avoid and cheat to get out of those situations which will broaden the gap between parent and child, and then the parent will probably become angry which will result in more anger and abuse, e.t.c. the cycle continues.

also, all this nonsense from -ian- is ridiculously illogical. Essentially what I just said above.
Let's use the categorical imperative like we should've when this thread started. Would you want someone else to raise you by abusing you to somehow teach you how to be a better person? I doubt it, so why would you do that to someone else? On top of that, not only is it a terrible way of teaching lessons, but it's immoral as fuck; for the above stated reasons.
Like I said before, abusing your child, physically or verbally, is akin to kicking a puppy.

Well this was kind of pretty much what I meant actually. I forgot to add that in. Hattersin and -ian- figure their own issues out. Hattersin seems to know what its like being beaten as well. Just from looking at the screenshot Hattersin took you can tell Hattersin was not wrong about what he said and people seem to disagree with -ian- even Cheshyre does.