Removing historical clans

Holotor

Apr 21, 2015

Holotor

Stitch Lips

Wushu Belt

Join Date: Apr 2009

Posts: 3,183

Clan: win

Apr 21, 2015

Would be neat if you let them keep their clan tag but just move their board from Official Clans to the regular Clan Discussion board (keep their official tags ingame too or maybe bring back the [-*insertclannamehere*] tag for inactive official clans idk) so they could continue being a clan and competed in events like Clan League if they wished, etc (if they're truly dead then move them to Dead Clan list but obviously UrbanUnit and RAWR are not dead they still have members that come online every now and then and do shit).

Moonshake

Apr 21, 2015

Moonshake

THE BIG RED MACHINE

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Join Date: Jul 2011

Posts: 2,687

Clan: 4 Pockets Full

Apr 21, 2015

Originally Posted by Toxic

The meaning and value of a museum isn't dependent on how many people work in it, it's the items and history in it, and as long as it has real history, people will never stop visiting it.

Killing a clan doesn't mean all of its achievements and legacy will die with it. Both RAWR and UrbanUnit have well established their places in Toribash, and dead clan boards are still viewable. Besides, it's not like anyone new will be in either of the clans soon, they both aren't really looking for new members.

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*SkulFuk

Apr 21, 2015

*SkulFuk

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Join Date: Mar 2008

Posts: 11,759

Clan: Parrot

Apr 21, 2015

Originally Posted by ImmortalPig

So;
1. To free up tags
2. To free up members

Nope & nope!

1. If the tag was "free" then reviving clans wouldn't work, someone else would swoop in and take it because people are dicks.
2. 99% of the reason a clan dies is because the members are inactive - in some cases for a number of years; so that's also null.

Zelda's getting the basic idea. It encourages clans to look after themselves & it's healthier for them. If we left them all sat there we'd have a few hundred inactive & verging on dead, and only 10 or so active ones.

As I stated before something will be sorted for "legendary clans", though it'll no doubt be followed by outrage over them getting preferential treatment again. >_>

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Smogard49

Apr 21, 2015

Smogard49

Master Belt

Join Date: Apr 2010

Posts: 2,069

Clan: fl0w

Apr 21, 2015

It's fun how you spark the discussion after someone highlights the issues with the activity checks, but then again you are held to such high standards. Especially as you had such a useful response to when missuse asked why this system is in place, in January.

http://forum.toribash.com/showpost.p...04&postcount=5

Tho' I guess it's better late then never, especially when it comes to activity checks. Damn, I hate double standards.

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☼hanz0

Apr 21, 2015

☼hanz0

learning to doctor
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4th Dan Black Belt

Join Date: Feb 2008

Posts: 11,932

Clan: NO

Apr 21, 2015

Originally Posted by Smogard49

It's fun how you spark the discussion after someone highlights the issues with the activity checks, but then again you are held to such high standards. Especially as you had such a useful response to when missuse asked why this system is in place, in January.

http://forum.toribash.com/showpost.p...04&postcount=5

Tho' I guess it's better late then never, especially when it comes to activity checks. Damn, I hate double standards.

literally have no idea what you're trying to say

Last edited by hanz0; Apr 21, 2015 at 06:31 PM.

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BenDover

Apr 22, 2015

BenDover

Toribash Legend

9th Dan Black Belt

Join Date: Oct 2007

Posts: 11,349

Clan: RAWR

Apr 22, 2015

Originally Posted by hanz0

BI haven't seen a single good argument for why we should allow clans that are - by multiple metrics and checks - dead to keep their clan boards beyond "it makes people feel bad".

in our case, i dont believe those metrics and checks to be accurate.
i post nearly daily, atleast 2 of our other members post sporadically and one is even active ingame.
if a clan is not very active, that doesnt mean its dead.

Originally Posted by hanz0

"Oh no this creates drama" is a terrible argument against new decisions. Drama always happens with decisions. See when limits were added to the number of games you could get TC from. See the times that we changed the policy on TC sales. See the decisions to change pricing on official clans.

those are hardly comparable examples, those were implimented to prevent a level of abusement that negatively affects the community.
us not playing X amount of games a month or logging X amount of hours in IRC does not negatively affect the community.

Originally Posted by Moonshake

Why keep around a clan when they are only together for one single event? It's like asking to not repeat a school year in high school because you were only present for one class.

this isnt highschool, our parents didnt pay you to make sure we do well.
we shouldnt be subject to attendance records or achieve a passing mark to keep our clan going.
there are limits as to how far that analogy can be pushed, but the sentiment is valid.

Originally Posted by hawkesnightmare

That is exactly what activity checks do. They look at forum, IRC and ingame activity. If the clan is lacking in at least two of those three sections, they get a notice of inactivity.

so if a clan doesnt use IRC, they are automatically 1-3?
boring.
again i mention that clans should not be subject to attendance records.

Originally Posted by Zelda

Other than that I can really see where you are coming from. But it is important to remember that by having high standards we should end up with a better selection of clans (in terms of current actions rather than historically) eventually.

having a better selection of clans will not result in a better state of the game.
it will either result in a worse state of the game, or nothing will change at all.
history has proven this multiple times within the organisations board. culling the memberlist does not improve the org, it just makes it smaller.
but atleast with an internall cull, it indicates a level of change from inside.
a forced change doesnt indicate as much.

Originally Posted by Zelda

For all the people wondering why such a no brainer as a legendary clan section being made needs to be discussed I imagine that there is a debate between whether the effort it would take to set that up and decide who judges each clan and how it would be judges would be worth keeping some old-schoolers happy.

they set it up for individual legends and that is run/maintained well enough and it was worth the effort.
the same pricipal could be applied to a clan legends system, if not on a smaller scale.
perhaps making a tab for hall of fame clans in the current legends subforum.
the individual legends have had a positive effect on the community, giving users something tangible to aim for and pull inspiration from.

Originally Posted by SkulFuk

For those affected in the clans

A clan dying doesn't change who you are, or any impact the clan had in the past - things are remembered. People are remembered.

not necessarilly so:

Originally Posted by Hattersin

Personally I have never heard of, or know anything about, for example [ToriGod], other than them being a clan at some point

Originally Posted by SkulFuk

It encourages clans to look after themselves & it's healthier for them. If we left them all sat there we'd have a few hundred inactive & verging on dead, and only 10 or so active ones.

As I stated before something will be sorted for "legendary clans", though it'll no doubt be followed by outrage over them getting preferential treatment again. >_>

there are alternatives to killing those clans off though.
some newer influencial clans are made up of noteworthy members, but some have PRODUCED noteworthy members.
many individuals in this community are as much a product of their clan as they are of their own actions.
RAWR is one of those.

i trust in skul though, make something happen.

Last edited by BenDover; Apr 22, 2015 at 12:48 AM.

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ImmortalPig

Apr 22, 2015

ImmortalPig

ub3r

Yellow Belt

Join Date: Jun 2013

Posts: 2,947

Apr 22, 2015

Originally Posted by SkulFuk

Nope & nope!

1. If the tag was "free" then reviving clans wouldn't work, someone else would swoop in and take it because people are dicks.
2. 99% of the reason a clan dies is because the members are inactive - in some cases for a number of years; so that's also null.

Zelda's getting the basic idea. It encourages clans to look after themselves & it's healthier for them. If we left them all sat there we'd have a few hundred inactive & verging on dead, and only 10 or so active ones.

As I stated before something will be sorted for "legendary clans", though it'll no doubt be followed by outrage over them getting preferential treatment again. >_>

So the only reason for threatening to delete clans is so they become more active?

Skul this is some terrible half baked logic you have there... Just stop deleting clans altogether and people/clans will be active/inactive whenever they feel like it. Why make all this work for yourself doing something that really doesn't do anything...

The system operates in such a way to catch out clans that simply turn up for activity checks when we post them on your board - this way we don't have inactive clans slip the net.

Why try so hard to delete clans... If you stealth check then you aren't even achieving the questionable goal that you wanted to achieve...

Last edited by ImmortalPig; Apr 22, 2015 at 03:06 AM.

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Parasite

Apr 22, 2015

Parasite

NON-EXISTING!

Red Belt

Join Date: Dec 2010

Posts: 1,213

Apr 22, 2015

Insanity Gynx just takes his forum job to seriously. I say we all just stop arguing and let the forums and stuff die do to poor moderation!.

Seriously though, all this arguing is doing nothing but increasing our post count, it's not like anything is gonna change.

Frunk

Apr 22, 2015

Frunk

ub3r

5th Dan Black Belt

Join Date: May 2007

Posts: 2,974

Clan: UrbanUnit

Apr 22, 2015

Originally Posted by Space

Insanity Gynx just takes his forum job to seriously. I say we all just stop arguing and let the forums and stuff die do to poor moderation!.

Seriously though, all this arguing is doing nothing but increasing our post count, it's not like anything is gonna change.

If you think the backlash will have no effect on the decision you are not giving Gynx, Hanz0 or Skulfuk enough credit. They obviously care about the community and are not unreasonable people, though they have to deal with a lot of unreasonable people. Anyway the question had to be raised at some point, on my end the implementation just felt very rushed and pre-decided, which makes it harder to swallow.

I'd also like to thank all of those who came out to support Urban Unit and RAWR who are outsiders, your support shows we continue to impact the community.

RAWR if you are deleted its sad to see you go, I know every time I log on to toribash your tag is one of a select few I will search for. All RAWR members were always friendly and inspirational to play with.

Anyway the decision will certainly set a precedent for the toribash community in the future. I know where my bets lie on the correct decision, but I have not spent a quarter of the time or effort working with the community as Gynx, Skulfuk or Hanz0, so ultimately it is their decision to make and I can't be angry at them that our clan didn't organically maintain its activity over its long lifespan.

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Gotti

Apr 22, 2015

Gotti

Maybach Money Belt

Join Date: Jul 2014

Posts: 1,040

Clan: fl0w

Apr 22, 2015

For one there is Little to No incentive that makes people wanna play the game, before you take away clans for not being ingame makes sure that there is an incentive

http://forum.toribash.com/showthread...51#post9452751

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