Toribash
Originally Posted by Hyde View Post
The answer for that is simple. When the human aspect fails, like in many sports where referees cannot keep up with the game, a technological aspect must come in to make up for human deficiencies.

This could mean a lot of things. One way it can be interpreted as is controlling the transaction of money very strictly through the use of technology to ensure that no one is making billions in bribes. Remove paper money altogether. That would also help with tax-related crimes, and other crimes because you could track each transaction. That's just a single suggestion.

The point of it is that technology makes up for human weakness.

That is actually quite the reasonable idea. But computers have to be build and programmed and someone has to pay for it. There still is alot of parts where a human with enough money and evil intentions could manipulate it.

Also, think about it, would any politician willingly fund a machine that replaces him? No. They would actively go against it
I don't think democracy is necessarily failing, just becoming less efficient. Here in the US, I see that the whole "checks and balances" thing isn't really working out at the moment, but our people aren't protesting about it violently or nonviolently. Besides, it'll probably just sort itself out once we switch a president or two.
About the other countries, I'm not in a position to say what's going on there.
Originally Posted by AntiPeople View Post
I don't think democracy is necessarily failing, just becoming less efficient. Here in the US, I see that the whole "checks and balances" thing isn't really working out at the moment, but our people aren't protesting about it violently or nonviolently.

Not protesting? I struggle to come up with any modern day democracy where the people are more unhappy about their government than in the USA.

Originally Posted by AntiPeople View Post
Besides, it'll probably just sort itself out once we switch a president or two.

If you really think these problems, which have been around for more than one president, are going to magically fix themselfes, then maybe the problem is not the presidents or the politicans, but actually the voters.
Originally Posted by Chirs View Post
Not protesting? I struggle to come up with any modern day democracy where the people are more unhappy about their government than in the USA.

We complain a lot, but only the minority try to make change. Yes, we are lazy Americans.

Originally Posted by Chirs View Post
If you really think these problems, which have been around for more than one president, are going to magically fix themselfes, then maybe the problem is not the presidents or the politicans, but actually the voters.

Of course it's been declining slowly, that's just how it works. All we had was a bad line of leaders in the past couple decades. Won't take much to deal with the problems they caused, but congress is a little divided lately, so it could take a while.

Originally Posted by Chirs View Post
then maybe the problem is not the presidents or the politicans, but actually the voters.

Just to clear things up, the public hardly votes on anything at this point. The electoral college does all the work, and only 8-10 states don't automatically unanimously vote for a certain party.
You should add it to the title: Democracy failing, systems fading away from democracy becoming successful.
In my opinion democracy is a bad but popular idea if we just look at its base meaning. Every citizen leading their country? Why would it even be logical? Some people are good at baking and they learn baking, others do so with playing basketball. And some people are good at leading countries and they learn it. And they will probably do it the best. Why would all those dumbs lead the country instead? Why should they choose leaders who will favor their dumb wills? In a complex question the majority always makes bad decision.

But it means that dictatorship is the best possible system. Fast decisions, mostly good ones and those decisions won't favor the ones who brought the leader where he or she is currently. In long terms those decisions will favor everyone. I say it again, in long terms.
Our world is too pussy to understand it. And most people probably can't think on their own.
Last edited by Uncas23; May 27, 2015 at 11:01 PM.
"Why?"
Ok. Two things. AMERICA IS NOT FUCKING DEMOCRATIC. Democracy is when the people have a part in the actual enactment of laws and things that the congress, president, and the supreme court all do. America is a republic. Republic systems are when the people chose somebody to represent them (Barack Obama) and those representives then control what the government does. The thing is, the people are easily influenced by all sorts of things. They end up making a bad choice(If there were any good choices). Opinions also effect it. But, people want these choices. They want that control but also that risk. It's what made america a better place than dictator countries. Without control, they didn't have what they wanted and that prospect of getting that is what makes America the strongest and most capable country in the world (Well in some areas at least).
Second. This sort of thing dis-appreciation happens. As time goes by, people supposedly want "change" as they are beginning to pull every flaw against the government officials. In reality, America would ultimately fail if they tried anything else. Dictatorship and things of that nature are too strict and can't be broken easily. (Uncas. Since when dictatorship been good. Stalin and Hitler. Remember those names). Democracy puts too much pressure on society and most people don't want control. Politicians know what they're doing. People aren't unhappy. They need a reminder of why the "freedom" is their only choice. Only idiots are protesting and that's mostly because of branches of the government, not the government system. Lemme say that again.
People are mad at the branches of the American government and their actions, not the actual government system.
"Who wouldn't pass up gay sex with Bercat?"
"Day is probably masturbating to Osu"- Hydra 2k15
Originally Posted by AntiPeople View Post
Of course it's been declining slowly, that's just how it works. All we had was a bad line of leaders in the past couple decades. Won't take much to deal with the problems they caused, but congress is a little divided lately, so it could take a while.

Ok then if you say so. Try waiting if you will.

Originally Posted by AntiPeople View Post
Just to clear things up, the public hardly votes on anything at this point. The electoral college does all the work, and only 8-10 states don't automatically unanimously vote for a certain party.

And there you have what I was calling the failure of democracy. You don't get to decide anything and they still pretend that you do. Still all the little sheep are happily accepting that, and in the end companies that ruin our planet run their country, but it's cool because
"at least it's not Hitler, right?"

Originally Posted by Uncas23 View Post
But it means that dictatorship is the best possible system. Fast decisions, mostly good ones and those decisions won't favor the ones who brought the leader where he or she is currently. In long terms those decisions will favor everyone. I say it again, in long terms.
Our world is too pussy to understand it. And most people probably can't think on their own.

You must be the worlds biggest optimist and have huge trust in humanity to think that someone given absolute power, like in a dictatorship, would use this power only to favor his country.
Again this is a purely utopian idea. No human can lead a country on his own without being currupted by power. I'd like you to show me one example of a perfectly reasonable, absolute dictator who didn't, in some way or form, abuse his powers.

Originally Posted by qukslice View Post
Ok. Two things. AMERICA IS NOT FUCKING DEMOCRATIC. Democracy is when the people have a part in the actual enactment of laws and things that the congress, president, and the supreme court all do. America is a republic. Republic systems are when the people chose somebody to represent them (Barack Obama) and those representives then control what the government does. The thing is, the people are easily influenced by all sorts of things. They end up making a bad choice(If there were any good choices). Opinions also effect it. But, people want these choices. They want that control but also that risk. It's what made america a better place than dictator countries. Without control, they didn't have what they wanted and that prospect of getting that is what makes America the strongest and most capable country in the world (Well in some areas at least).

What you described is what we already established as a representative democracy. And even if the USA is not a democracy, it still call identifies itself as one.
So, you agree to saying that having representatives rule your country for you on the basis of trust does lead to bad decisions, but you want bad decisions? Please explain this train of thought, because I am utterly incapable of understanding your logic behind it.

Originally Posted by qukslice View Post
Second. This sort of thing dis-appreciation happens. As time goes by, people supposedly want "change" as they are beginning to pull every flaw against the government officials. In reality, America would ultimately fail if they tried anything else. Dictatorship and things of that nature are too strict and can't be broken easily. (Uncas. Since when dictatorship been good. Stalin and Hitler. Remember those names). Democracy puts too much pressure on society and most people don't want control. Politicians know what they're doing. People aren't unhappy. They need a reminder of why the "freedom" is their only choice. Only idiots are protesting and that's mostly because of branches of the government, not the government system. Lemme say that again.
People are mad at the branches of the American government and their actions, not the actual government system.

I'll just ignore the fact you indirectly called me an idiot for complaining about democracy, since you hopefully didn't mean it.
Earlier you said the people accept bad decisions because they realize that the control the government brings is essential, and yet now you condemn dictatorships, which are basically just that: Great amounts of control, but some bad decisons. At one point you even literally said
"They want that control but also that risk" and now "Democracy puts too much pressure on society and most people don't want control."
Please choose only one.

People aren't unhappy? Where do you take that from?

Lastly, if democracy would work, people would have no reason to complain about any part of the government. But what really happens is that no matter what you voters do, the people in pwoer will still not listen to you and run their country while giving you the illusion of choice. That is why people complain about democracy.

Also, this is more general, but this thread is not only about the american "democracy" but also Europe and everywhere else.
Last edited by Chirs; May 28, 2015 at 07:06 AM.
Originally Posted by Chirs View Post
And there you have what I was calling the failure of democracy. You don't get to decide anything and they still pretend that you do. Still all the little sheep are happily accepting that, and in the end companies that ruin our planet run their country, but it's cool because
"at least it's not Hitler, right?"

True, true. But it's not like we're having our rights blatantly oppressed, so sadly I don't think any Americans care.

Whatever, man. Politics aren't exactly my preferred topics.
So what do you want chirs if not a democracy
I be that fan for siscon, lolicon, any form of pixlepussy I can pooled my dick out and skeet on it buakky on they face
Originally Posted by Gucci View Post
So what do you want chirs if not a democracy

I was awaiting this question, and even though this may be derailing the discussion I'll answer it;



Anyway, this discussion is not about what I want other than democracy, but why democracy failed and what we could do to salvage it, if anything.
I was hoping that someone would come up with an interesting idea or viewpoint to make democracy work. The closest we got so far is what deprav said, I think.