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The rise and declension of growth will always remain parallel to the debt. It is a bad thing though. Inflation will continue to rise. Our economic system is basically fictitious because we use our self made ideals rather than straight resources in society. Money is a good idea, don't get me wrong, but capitalism is in a noose. The talk about lowering debt makes 0 sense to me anymore.

Edit: Think of a dollar bill as an IOU.
Originally Posted by Link View Post
The rise and declension of growth will always remain parallel to the debt. It is a bad thing though. Inflation will continue to rise. Our economic system is basically fictitious because we use our self made ideals rather than straight resources in society. Money is a good idea, don't get me wrong, but capitalism is in a noose. The talk about lowering debt makes 0 sense to me anymore.

Edit: Think of a dollar bill as an IOU.

You sound like a socialist. Are you a socialist?
Socialism isn't even a bad thing. The majority of developed countries have some degree of socialism already integrated into their government. Any service you have provided for you that is covered by government funding is a product of socialism. Law enforcement and other emergency services, public education, universal healthcare (for every developed nation other than the U.S.), these are products of socialism. Under a capitalist system, you would have to pay for the services provided as you require them.

Imagine having your house catch on fire. Would you rather the fire department shows up and puts it out and that's that, or they pull up and ask how much you can pay them before they start? Or let's say you get mugged on the way home from work so you call the police. Would you rather they show up and start conducting an investigation, or ask how much you're willing to spend to find the person who mugged you?

Socialism isn't perfect for every situation, but it's vastly superior to most other economic models when providing services that should be basic rights for citizens. They also function as tools to facilitate economic development, since they provide a baseline of resources and opportunity to all citizens, as well as function as a form of societal insurance.
nyan :3
Youtube Channel i sometimes post videos of other games
Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
Socialism isn't even a bad thing. The majority of developed countries have some degree of socialism already integrated into their government. Any service you have provided for you that is covered by government funding is a product of socialism. Law enforcement and other emergency services, public education, universal healthcare (for every developed nation other than the U.S.), these are products of socialism. Under a capitalist system, you would have to pay for the services provided as you require them.

Socialism is a bad thing; it's completely immoral. I don't want the government to force me to pay for the propagation of ideas that I disbelieve. I don't want the government to coerce me into helping individuals who do not deserve it (in my eyes), I want it to be voluntary. I should be able to choose what I pay for, what I invest in and, more importantly, how I spend my own money. Once you look into the definition of stealing, and how the government will threaten you and inevitably imprison you for resisting theft, it fits it. It's a shakedown that is labelled as moral - forced altruism. Has an anarcho-capitalist society ever been tried? No. So you cannot say it wouldn't work, when leaving aside the moral issues, as most often do.

Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
Imagine having your house catch on fire. Would you rather the fire department shows up and puts it out and that's that, or they pull up and ask how much you can pay them before they start? Or let's say you get mugged on the way home from work so you call the police. Would you rather they show up and start conducting an investigation, or ask how much you're willing to spend to find the person who mugged you?

It's very simple. You invest in private services before these kinds of things happen. It's your own fault if you haven't planned for that kind of situation. I don't care why the fire department puts out my fire, all that matters is that they do it. It's a two way street - the fundamental basis of capitalism. I need to sell you something to leave, and I need to buy it to live.
Originally Posted by Mallymkun View Post
Socialism is a bad thing; it's completely immoral. I don't want the government to force me to pay for the propagation of ideas that I disbelieve. I don't want the government to coerce me into helping individuals who do not deserve it (in my eyes), I want it to be voluntary. I should be able to choose what I pay for, what I invest in and, more importantly, how I spend my own money. Once you look into the definition of stealing, and how the government will threaten you and inevitably imprison you for resisting theft, it fits it. It's a shakedown that is labelled as moral - forced altruism. Has an anarcho-capitalist society ever been tried? No. So you cannot say it wouldn't work, when leaving aside the moral issues, as most often do.

You dont have to pay taxes, go live in the Bahamas - they dont have income tax. There you can enjoy paying $40k a year for education alone to your hearts content!



It's very simple. You invest in private services before these kinds of things happen. It's your own fault if you haven't planned for that kind of situation. I don't care why the fire department puts out my fire, all that matters is that they do it. It's a two way street - the fundamental basis of capitalism. I need to sell you something to leave, and I need to buy it to live.

Would you rather they ask you before they put out your fire how much you can pay, then only put out half of it if you cant afford it - or would you rather they ask afterwards leaving you unable to pay off your debt for the rest of your life?
Don't dm me pictures of bowls that you find attractive.
Originally Posted by fallu View Post
You dont have to pay taxes, go live in the Bahamas - they dont have income tax. There you can enjoy paying $40k a year for education alone to your hearts content!

I don't like the culture.

Originally Posted by fallu View Post
Would you rather they ask you before they put out your fire how much you can pay, then only put out half of it if you cant afford it - or would you rather they ask afterwards leaving you unable to pay off your debt for the rest of your life?

I'd rather the government didn't steal my fucking earnings for god knows what, rather than toy around with hypotheticals.
Originally Posted by Mallymkun View Post
I don't like the culture.

Then how about Morocco or Andorra? The point is the same you can choose to be in a country without taxes, but to have the same quality of life you will almost certainly have to pay more than you currently are.



I'd rather the government didn't steal my fucking earnings for god knows what, rather than toy around with hypotheticals.

The alternative to hypothetical situations isnt exactly changing the government tax system. However its a very relevant hypothetical situation to what you are talking about.

People will not have enough money to pay for services that they need, you could be one of those people if income tax didnt exist as a system - thinking about what it would mean to you in that case is important in being able to understand the other side of the argument. Which you may need to be able to do in order to convince other people that your argument is correct
Don't dm me pictures of bowls that you find attractive.
Originally Posted by Mallymkun View Post
Socialism is a bad thing; it's completely immoral. I don't want the government to force me to pay for the propagation of ideas that I disbelieve. I don't want the government to coerce me into helping individuals who do not deserve it (in my eyes), I want it to be voluntary. I should be able to choose what I pay for, what I invest in and, more importantly, how I spend my own money. Once you look into the definition of stealing, and how the government will threaten you and inevitably imprison you for resisting theft, it fits it. It's a shakedown that is labelled as moral - forced altruism. Has an anarcho-capitalist society ever been tried? No. So you cannot say it wouldn't work, when leaving aside the moral issues, as most often do.



It's very simple. You invest in private services before these kinds of things happen. It's your own fault if you haven't planned for that kind of situation. I don't care why the fire department puts out my fire, all that matters is that they do it. It's a two way street - the fundamental basis of capitalism. I need to sell you something to leave, and I need to buy it to live.

Alright, let's say you live in an anarcho-capitalist society. There is no government, everything is settled through what you can purchase. Warlords will inevitably set themselves up, because there is no law enforcement or standing military to prevent rule by force; they are the law enforcement and standing military. These warlords will then approach all in their land with the same offer: work for us and give us everything you own and we will let you live. You are now either dead or under 100% taxation and follow the rules of your benevolent dictator. Congratulations, enjoy spending your dirt and whatever scraps you are thrown as you scramble to survive. Anticipate your life expectancy to deteriorate to an average of 20-30 years, assuming you aren't killed because of any sign of rebellion you show to your new supreme overlord or you die of starvation or exposure. All economy will inevitably revert to an agricultural-based society, since any modern technological achievement is only sustainable through a large scale amount of investment and maintenance, and will never occur without some degree of organization. Say goodbye to the electrical infrastructure you take for granted. This state will continue until a warlord finally manages to accumulate enough population and resources under their control to establish the basis of a monarchy/oligarchy. Congratulations, you have now evolved from anarchy to the most basic form of government, or something the developed world has virtually done away with. Enjoy retreading the path of human civilization again.

If you can't tell, I'll spell it out; the above paragraph was dripping with sarcasm over how successful your anarcho-capitalist society would be.



Alright, you don't care how the fire department puts out the fire, so long as they do. But they don't have to under an anarcho-capitalist society. If you don't pay them enough, they'll just stand around and watch the house burn down. You got a problem with that? Tough luck, you should have had money. And now look at you. You now don't even have a house. Good luck trying to make money while homeless.

Oh look, you have money. Alright, I'm a firefighter for the local fire department. I know you have money. I'm going to start a fire at your house. You have a problem with that? Well we're the only fire department in town because we've established a monopoly in the region. You're going to have to pay us if you want somebody to put your house out. Thank you for your business kind sir. I'll be back to visit your house with a pair of matches and a can of gasoline next week. Prepare your payment by then, it'd be a shame if we just so happened had to put out another fire someplace else and couldn't make it to yours in time. Oh, it's not fair that I'm lighting your house on fire? Who are you gonna call, the cops? We're in a business partnership with them, we give them money to look the other way. Can you pay more than the shakedown money we're making? I don't think so, we're milking the region dry, you're one person. By the way, now that you brought this up, our fees for putting out a house fire have risen. See you again next week.

Boy, I'd love to live in this society. Why didn't we all just stay in the anarcho-capitalist model back when we stopped being hunter gatherers? I totally love being subjected to the people who have more power than me with no tools to raise myself out from poverty and oppression.


tl;dr: anarcho-capitalist societies have a snowball's chance in hell of being successful. You're either supremely confident that you'd be one of the dictators, or supremely blind to the benefits you've reaped living in a society with regulation.
nyan :3
Youtube Channel i sometimes post videos of other games
Originally Posted by Mallymkun View Post
I don't know how to respond to that.

because your mind was blown