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Old Jan 18, 2019   #21
Jack
 
Custom Belt
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,743
Clan: Suki



I’ve been detached from the community for a bit, so I don’t want to give criticism, without knowing the whole situation.

What i want to suggest is that the activity points be reset after every check, hard resetting the scores to 0 after an activity check, in this case 2 months (the ones that leaders use i mean) because it’s pretty annoying to look at the activity and ponder if the activity that people have is just last months activity that they got at the end of the month. And maybe have a “Activity Hostory” (saves the activity of the last x checks) that way leaders can judge there members.

As for the sp activity, idk if i’m speaking sci fi scenario here, but it would be cool if the game had a tracking system that would track the joints clicked, frames skipped, time spent on a replay then somehow converting that to activity points (but quite small for just those), then if they upload it they get a multiplier that would boost the score (idk how replays are managed but if joke replays get removed by staff, it doesn’t sound too bad), also somehow give more points if you get cnc from respected replay makers/respected players. Just wild ideas that might seem fun to think about.
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Old Jan 18, 2019   #22
Lionet
Raconteur
 
2nd Dan Black Belt
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,352
Clan: OwO



Originally Posted by Ele View Post
Explain to me how it 'forces' a clans activity in a direction. All it does is provide them with ANOTHER method of achieving activity. It doesn't take anything away. If you don't like this idea because I came up with it, just say that instead.

well, once your clan selected "SP Clan" option you are pretty much forced to stick to SP if I got your idea right. Same as if your clan pick "MP Clan" option, because if your clan happens to slow down mp activity but rather started posting some replays for some odd reason, they won't be counted and vice-versa.

If clans needed to specify their "specialized area of activity", that means there would be a system checking SP clans and another system checking MP clans, forcing each type of clan playing only one of those in order to pass the checks.

If a clan could pick being both SP and MP, then it's all cool but why splitting SP and MP when you have a system which already considers both in one?

Originally Posted by Ele View Post
Not when it's possible for the clan you're describing to still have 10 active members and not achieve full activity points, which CAN BE the case when inactive ranks are not considered. This is why we brought it up.

You and sir say inactive ranks functionally change nothing, but you're just flat-out wrong.

regarding inactivity ranks, I think there is no harm on adding them. Some clans have members that just wont come back and even if they do, they're less likely to play the game often again. I just can't tell to what extend this feature should be "easily handled" by the clan, when someone is going inactive for a while they can just put them as inactive until this person come back, and this runs far away from the "members we don't want to kick" speech. That said, I prefer not having inactivity ranks for the time being
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Old Jan 18, 2019   #23
yuki
 
2nd Dan Black Belt
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,556



Originally Posted by nikosefs View Post
1.so with these changes in the system, if i were to reapply jolly for official,what would be our chances?

2.our problem is the big inactive roster of members that
we dont want to kick,can now x small number of active
players take the burden of their x inactive brothers?

3.also an idea for sp clans, is it possible to make online
servers but with uke as opponent, that way you could monitor them just as mp clans with games played
(got the idea from single player games that require online connection)

Note that we haven't made any public announcement or significant changes when it comes to clans officialization, it's still the same process tbh. But now with the ability to check your clan's activity (if it's green, yellow or red), you can deduct what are your chances.

2. If you can? yes. But 2-4 guys aren't going to cut it that easily in a 45+ members clan.

3. Talking as a normal user, i don't think that will be possible.

Originally Posted by Jack View Post
I’ve been detached from the community for a bit, so I don’t want to give criticism, without knowing the whole situation.

1. What i want to suggest is that the activity points be reset after every check, hard resetting the scores to 0 after an activity check, in this case 2 months (the ones that leaders use i mean) because it’s pretty annoying to look at the activity and ponder if the activity that people have is just last months activity that they got at the end of the month. And maybe have a “Activity Hostory” (saves the activity of the last x checks) that way leaders can judge there members.

2.As for the sp activity, idk if i’m speaking sci fi scenario here, but it would be cool if the game had a tracking system that would track the joints clicked, frames skipped, time spent on a replay then somehow converting that to activity points (but quite small for just those), then if they upload it they get a multiplier that would boost the score (idk how replays are managed but if joke replays get removed by staff, it doesn’t sound too bad), also somehow give more points if you get cnc from respected replay makers/respected players. Just wild ideas that might seem fun to think about.

I actually liked your idea about resetting activity points. Thanks for suggesting!

OBS: general forum rules are also applicable to this thread. So, please keep your next posts on topic guys. Thank you!
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Old Jan 19, 2019   #24
Ele
 
3rd Dan Black Belt
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,370



Originally Posted by Lionet View Post
well, once your clan selected "SP Clan" option you are pretty much forced to stick to SP if I got your idea right. Same as if your clan pick "MP Clan" option, because if your clan happens to slow down mp activity but rather started posting some replays for some odd reason, they won't be counted and vice-versa.

Yeah, you didn't get my idea right. What I suggested doesn't work like that at all.
Originally Posted by Lionet View Post
If clans needed to specify their "specialized area of activity", that means there would be a system checking SP clans and another system checking MP clans, forcing each type of clan playing only one of those in order to pass the checks.

They don't need to specify a specialised area of activity. All they need to say if they consider themselves SP. If they do, they get given another way for their members to be counted (IF they fail a check). Nobody is forced to play only SP or MP with this.

Originally Posted by Lionet View Post
If a clan could pick being both SP and MP, then it's all cool but why splitting SP and MP when you have a system which already considers both in one?

The pick both, but yeah - Prior to my idea being posted, Erth hadn't revealed to us that he already 'solved' the problem with checking SP clans.

He's now going to have his robot scan uploads in the replay + mod sections and this isn't 'likely' to change.
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Old Jan 19, 2019   #25
Lionet
Raconteur
 
2nd Dan Black Belt
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,352
Clan: OwO



@Ele: then the clan would choose between SP checks and regular checks (that are being presented here)?
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Old Jan 19, 2019   #26
Erth
One Bang Dan
 
One Bang Dan Black Belt
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 9,104
Clan: Tribe



Originally Posted by nikosefs
so with these changes in the system, if i were to reapply jolly for official,what would be our chances?

our problem is the big inactive roster of members that
we dont want to kick,can now x small number of active
players take the burden of their x inactive brothers?


also an idea for sp clans, is it possible to make online
servers but with uke as opponent, that way you could monitor them just as mp clans with games played
(got the idea from single player games that require online connection)

Hey niko, glad we could talk about this on discord but I just wanted to make a formal response for you. <3
With these current changes, JollyR would still be too inactive to qualify, unfortunately.
Ultimately one man can't carry an entire clan, as much as I'd love to see another JollyR uprising.
As for the sp thing, we did actually look into something like that, and it's something we're still discussing but it would probably end up as a thing for Toribash Next if it happens. Which is still pretty neat - just for collective replay making and stuff, even if it's no longer necessary for activity checks.

Originally Posted by Ele
Yes, the problem it's indicative of is a shitty automated system... Christ.

The problem was indicative of poor criteria that has (hoepfully) now been adjusted so this doesn't happen again.

Originally Posted by Ele
So what does this mean? Are you going to consider Discord or no? You don't want it formalised, but you want to be aware of it? What does this actually mean for clans with discords?

To clarify:
The criteria should be aware of discord. By this I mean that I know discord is currently the best way to communicate. And so the criteria reflects that. Forum activity will have a relatively low floor and ceiling.
Writing this post I performed an activity check. 2 clans were close to the 50 posts mark, and 2 clans fell below it.
RelaxAll - 55
WAPOW - 54
Desolate - 34
Tribe - 28
200 posts a month sees a clan pass the activity check already. 12 clans hit that mark.
There is literal empirical evidence that the current forum-based activity criteria is plenty effective on its own without measuring discord.

Originally Posted by Ele
Dude, fuck you. Unnecessary shade, especially when all I'm doing here is helping out. If you don't want me posting, or you're not going to take what I say seriously, just tell me not to post here.

I expected better from you, Mr. 'Community Cultivation'.

Ok, I don't want you posting here any more. Easy.
Consider this your 'ban' from this thread.
This thread is to cultivate helpful responses, build a dialogue and ultimately craft a better system. 90% of what you bring to the table is toxicity and bile. I give you one line of sass and suddenly I've crossed a line.
I've been in the job a week and I'm already done with your nonsense. Previous admins would humour you, I won't.
If you take issue with this, pm one of my superiors.

Originally Posted by Jack
I’ve been detached from the community for a bit, so I don’t want to give criticism, without knowing the whole situation.

What i want to suggest is that the activity points be reset after every check, hard resetting the scores to 0 after an activity check, in this case 2 months (the ones that leaders use i mean) because it’s pretty annoying to look at the activity and ponder if the activity that people have is just last months activity that they got at the end of the month. And maybe have a “Activity Hostory” (saves the activity of the last x checks) that way leaders can judge there members.

As for the sp activity, idk if i’m speaking sci fi scenario here, but it would be cool if the game had a tracking system that would track the joints clicked, frames skipped, time spent on a replay then somehow converting that to activity points (but quite small for just those), then if they upload it they get a multiplier that would boost the score (idk how replays are managed but if joke replays get removed by staff, it doesn’t sound too bad), also somehow give more points if you get cnc from respected replay makers/respected players. Just wild ideas that might seem fun to think about.

Hey dude, welcome back haha. Good to see you taking the time to acclimatize, much appreciated.
I can sympathise with that notion of having a reset. I'll look into having like a tick box, so that when a clan (or myself) checks activity it has the option to reset.
I'm not 100% how it'd work yet, but I appreciate the idea. Will pass it along to sir.
The sp thing: little bit sci fi my dude. Not sure it's something we could reliably get going. But appreciate the input.

Originally Posted by Lionet
regarding inactivity ranks, I think there is no harm on adding them. Some clans have members that just wont come back and even if they do, they're less likely to play the game often again. I just can't tell to what extend this feature should be "easily handled" by the clan, when someone is going inactive for a while they can just put them as inactive until this person come back, and this runs far away from the "members we don't want to kick" speech. That said, I prefer not having inactivity ranks for the time being

The more I read on it the more I'm torn on the issue, and I hope you see my dilema.
On the one hand, if a clan has over 50% of its members totally dead, that clan clearly can't be considered as active as a clan like evo, whereby a lot of their older members still play and get involved. I don't think anyone is arguing that.
On the other hand, I totally understand the sentiment of not wanting to kick oldies from the clan, which ultimately leads to a clan filling up with people who have gone inactive.
There is a long term issue there, but I don't know as a straight up inactive rank that excludes them from checks is the way forward.
I'll reignite some discussions on it, and see what happens. No promises obviously but I can at least get it talked about some more for you guys.

To clarify, the activity points are only penalised if over 50% of the clan is inactive.
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Last edited by Erth; Jan 19, 2019 at 04:39 PM..
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Old Jan 19, 2019   #27
Lionet
Raconteur
 
2nd Dan Black Belt
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,352
Clan: OwO



Originally Posted by Erth View Post
The more I read on it the more I'm torn on the issue, and I hope you see my dilema.
On the one hand, if a clan has over 50% of its members totally dead, that clan clearly can't be considered as active as a clan like evo, whereby a lot of their older members still play and get involved. I don't think anyone is arguing that.
On the other hand, I totally understand the sentiment of not wanting to kick oldies from the clan, which ultimately leads to a clan filling up with people who have gone inactive.
There is a long term issue there, but I don't know as a straight up inactive rank that excludes them from checks is the way forward.
I'll reignite some discussions on it, and see what happens. No promises obviously but I can at least get it talked about some more for you guys.

To clarify, the activity points are only penalised if over 50% of the clan is inactive.


yeah I can see that, and I won't say I disagree with the decision not to have an inactive rank for now. Aside of not being the priority, the new system is fairly easier to get past and having more than 50% inactive members is kinda lame (I wouldn't mind having these clans around though, should be their option whether to keep inactive members or not, without being somewhat punished for that). That is the only point of the system update that still feels harsh (for some clans) but I like how things are going and I won't bother complaining until I feel like my clan is being harmed.
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Last edited by Lionet; Jan 19, 2019 at 01:25 PM..
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Old Jan 20, 2019   #28
Mafia
Paywast
 
10th Dan Black Belt
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 523



I don't think anyone would have a problem with de-officialization if it didn't mean they will lose their history (threads/posts) and have to start over.

e.g Official clan becomes inactive for a while, Gets de-officialized, stays inactive for months, then when they become active again, they would apply for official again, get official again and get their old board back. which means they will have their old posts/threads there still, and continue as if nothing happened.


And if they don't become active again after they are de-officialized, then they will be treated like any other unofficial clan till they are a dead clan
then their official boards can be deleted if it has to be.
You can't fight change. You can't fight nature.

Last edited by Mafia; Jan 20, 2019 at 12:11 PM..
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Old Jan 20, 2019   #29
Insanity
Dator Mortis
 
Golden Belt
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 15,302
Clan: fl0w



he whole thread and it all sounds good.


As i see the only problem now is sp clans.
But you do get 25 points only from forum activity so the clan passes. So al they want to do if they want to have a clan is to post replays in clan board and they are good to go. Don;t even see why this is a problem. If they want more they should play the game like the rest of us plebs.




I find the clan room perk very nice and i have a few ideas about it.
I think it should cost a lot of perk at the begining but after you should only pay a moderate fee every 6 months.
To get people to actually play in the rooms is trickier. I would like to think of this room as customisable. So beside gettting the room you can also get other perks for it.
- Like a big wall far away with clan logo (3d item) that only apears in that room
- welcome messages for clan members like on discord when you join a room. For example : insanity joins room, /cp text says All hail Insanity! (maybe the perk comes with 3 options to edit and text is randomly shown)
- colored clan tag text in room
Maybe more, can;t think of any more atm.
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Old Jan 22, 2019   #30
Immotay
 
Master Belt
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,407



I like a lot Insanity's idea to have a static 3d item in the clan server, custom name or OP color, if that ever comes to the game. I feel like the current system requires too much ingame activity but the perks are all forum related so there's no ingame rewards for the effort you make.


Also, another suggestion for a perk would be to have an item similar to the head avatar that displays under your score ingame, but it'd have your clan logo instead.

Maybe it could come with a small discount (10 or 15%) when bought in a bundle together with the clan logo for forum posts, or have that discount to apply as if you own one, the other is a little bit cheaper and vice-versa.

Last edited by Immotay; Jan 22, 2019 at 01:20 AM..
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