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Mar 11, 2019 Old
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Mar 11, 2019 Old
Originally Posted by Wounder View Post
Except it hasn't done a whole lot in preventing scamming, and in fact the dueling rules actually help scammers.
People are now abusing the verified TC sellers function by impersonating them on discord and scamming the USD without even needing a toribash account, so there's no way to punish them.

Do laws against murder prevent murder?

You're saying a rule that doesnt fully prevent what it's trying to prevent should be abolished. Well I'm not saying any rule is perfect but I am saying that without checks and balances, there would be alot more scamming.

also I don't have to prove anything to you and you still havent told me how my activity factors into the validity of my arguements.
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Mar 11, 2019 Old
Originally Posted by Wounder View Post
Recently Diamond, who recently became a legend, and is one of the best influences of recent Toribash history, was banned for selling TC.

Originally Posted by Shmevin View Post
Also, I sold Xanax 800,000 TC. He approached me to purchase TC, and I obliged. You might as well ban me too.


i thought i clicked on discussion how did i end up in hall of glory

yeet me out of here goddamn
8===D
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Mar 11, 2019 Old
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Mar 11, 2019 Old
Originally Posted by Chirs View Post
Do laws against murder prevent murder?

You're saying a rule that doesnt fully prevent what it's trying to prevent should be abolished. Well I'm not saying any rule is perfect but I am saying that without checks and balances, there would be alot more scamming.

Laws against murder also don't punish the law abiding citizens, and don't help the murderers.

I'm not saying the rules should be abolished, but as of right now they need to be changed.

Originally Posted by Chirs View Post
also I don't have to prove anything to you and you still havent told me how my activity factors into the validity of my arguements.

Notice how people who actually play the game are against these rules, now notice how you barely play the game and these rules do not affect you in any way.
It's exactly like the millionaire celebrities living in gated community's who are for illegal immigration.
Last edited by Wounder; Mar 11, 2019 at 06:09 PM.
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Mar 11, 2019 Old
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Mar 11, 2019 Old
Originally Posted by Wounder View Post
Laws against murder also don't punish the law abiding citizens, and don't help the murderers.

I'm not saying the rules should be abolished, but as of right now they need to be changed.

You keep saying this, but I haven’t read a single explainaition on how exactly this rule helps scammers. Not asking in any sarcastic way, but in your opinion, how exactly do these rules help scammers?


(im)

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Mar 11, 2019 Old
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Mar 11, 2019 Old
Originally Posted by Wizard View Post
You keep saying this, but I haven’t read a single explainaition on how exactly this rule helps scammers. Not asking in any sarcastic way, but in your opinion, how exactly do these rules help scammers?

Originally Posted by wounder
I believe the rule is totally unfair, and totally IN favor of the scammers, while giving everyone else in the community a headache. Just recently Ceytune/Senu/Tyka has gone around and scammed 3 people in USD duels, and he's free as a bird.

Originally Posted by wounder
someone named 'Asni' has gone around on discord impersonating users like me, diamond, and others, and has scammed upwards of 200$ USD AFTER this whole TC selling reform was implemented without even having an account to ban, so how useful is it really?

This is why I believe these rules are helping scammers. There's absolutely no punishment for either of these things, and the only ones punished are the people who play the game fairly because they can't even sell TC, buy TC without waiting 3 days for someone to open the sellers thread, or duel for USD without having to worry about getting nothing.

The game has taken a drastic downturn within the last year, and it seems nobody cares.
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Mar 11, 2019 Old
Originally Posted by Wounder View Post
Notice how people who actually play the game are against these rules, now notice how you barely play the game and these rules do not affect you in any way.
It's exactly like the millionaire celebrities living in gated community's who are for illegal immigration.

If you really thought so, you wouldn't have posted this on the forums because surely you know the majority of people in this community do not play the game as much as you guys do.
I think you only want to hear people agree with you and because I am not agreeing with you my opinion is irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Wounder View Post
This is why I believe these rules are helping scammers. There's absolutely no punishment for either of these things, and the only ones punished are the people who play the game fairly because they can't even sell TC, buy TC without waiting 3 days for someone to open the sellers thread, or duel for USD without having to worry about getting nothing.

Do you honestly believe the reason why that person hasnt been banned is because the system allows it? this has to be the dumbest arguement you've brought up yet. It also shows you why the current system is how it is:

The reason you're required to document your sales on the forums BEFORE you do them is because otherwise the staff would have a much harder time deciding who is telling the truth in case a scam does occur. In your example, this guy supposedly scammed people impersonating you or other trusted Sellers. The staff can easily check if he was indeed scammed by checking your threads and seeing that you haven't logged any transactions, while the scammed shows that somebody who looked like he was you scammed him. If you were not required to document your sales, how would the staff decide whose screenshot of a discord chat is altered or real or who's telling the truth? You can alter screenshots, you can fake chatlogs, but you cannot alter forum posts after they are made, the original is always retained.

But okay, you're that convinced that this system is flawed, what alternative do you offer? As it stands according to sir, the current system has reduced the amount of scams, but if you have some other magic system that works better why don't you enlighten us?
Last edited by Chirs; Mar 11, 2019 at 07:17 PM.
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Mar 12, 2019 Old
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Mar 12, 2019 Old
1 month is ridiculous. Context and consequences should reduce the length of the ban.

Context referring to Diamond's positive past history of selling TC, the prohibitive length it takes for TC threads to be reopened and his intent to post as soon as it was opened...
AND
Consequences referring to the fact that EVERYONE is fine, no-one was scammed, all is well. Reserve your big bans for bad people intending bad things.

Also, pouffy, in those screenshots from earlier on in the thread, comes across as real arrogant and dismissive of Diamond, telling him to go "bitch to someone else". Poor form.

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Mar 12, 2019 Old
Hi, Diamond here

First of all, I must say, that I'm very disappointed with some of the staff members(Pouffy, Icky, sir, Krong, others I don't remember). They've proven themselves to me to be people who can't help but show their worst qualities, whenever their actions are questioned and point of view challenged. Qualities such as arrogance, condescension, bias, toxicity, rudeness were displayed in large amounts during our ''discussion'' in discord. It was very surprising to see people, who are supposed to be working for the good of Torbiash, ganging up and blatantly mocking people who came to complain about the ridiculous bans they've received.

Also, I'm sorry, Chirs, but I think your posts are just huge amounts of useless sophistry. I doubt that anybody here, except you, views this discussion as some sort of mental exercise just for the sake of it.

Situation is very clear to me, and I think my last exchange with Creati0n in ban appeals, after which I received no answer, characterizes it well:

132



Lots of sophisticated meaningless sentences, but what for? Those words won't conceal what's going on.

Just stop and think of the situation that we have. I think, everybody can agree, that neither me nor Shmevin have done anything bad. Yet, according to current rules, we should be banned for a month.
What kind of vision for Toribash do staff have, if they enact and so fervently protect such things? Even more fervently than they fought against banning Senu, an obvious scammer, that they know is a scammer, but won't ban him, because it's not by their rules.

I know that staff and their supporters do have sound arguments and won't hesitate to use them once again. Despite being very deatched from TC selling and basically all in-game activities, they, apparently, deem themselves experts in those fields and won't listen to people who are actually involved with TC selling and in-game activities. And, as far as I know, majority of those people protest the rules that staff have implemented.

Edit: Fun fact: Xanax, the person who we got banned for selling tc to, got scammed right before that. And guess what? The scammer doesn't suffer any penalty! Now, I understand, that staff couldn't prevent this, but they could at least not punish players who make fair and honest deals.

Also, if I understand it correctly, Krong wouldn't even check my transfer history, had I not tried to follow the rules as thoroughly. If I didn't try to create the thread to document our deal for staff to see, nobody would know about this deal at all and I wouldn't be banned. Same goes for Shmevin, who openly admitted to selling TC. Nobody would even know about any of this, if me and Shmevin didn't try to follow the rules and be honest. How come staff make it the most penalizing to be honest and fair, while scammers aren't affected at all?

In the end, we have two innocent people banned for a month, while known scammers are unpunished. And that is enough proof for me, that your rule system is malfunctioning.
Last edited by dnomaiD; Mar 12, 2019 at 05:19 AM.
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Mar 12, 2019 Old
Originally Posted by Chirs View Post
If you really thought so, you wouldn't have posted this on the forums because surely you know the majority of people in this community do not play the game as much as you guys do.


If you haven't noticed from previous screenshots, staff were being very disrespectful to Diamond on discord, pouffy mainly, so Diamond asked me to post this craziness here for the rest of the community to see, and i'm not assuming everyone on the forums doesn't play the game.

Originally Posted by Chirs View Post
I think you only want to hear people agree with you and because I am not agreeing with you my opinion is irrelevant.

Sounds a lot like the staff handling this situation, of course I'd like people to agree with me, but you can really say this about anyone who has ever defended any of their ideas, ever, if you really wanted, so this statement is absolutely useless to your argument.



Originally Posted by Chirs View Post
Do you honestly believe the reason why that person hasnt been banned is because the system allows it? this has to be the dumbest arguement you've brought up yet.

Yes, duel scammers have not been banned because the system allows it. I don't see how that's stupid, in fact this has to be the dumbest thing you've yet to say, and truly shows your disconnect with the game, which was my main point that seemed to really get your pants in a knot.


Originally Posted by Chirs View Post
The reason you're required to document your sales on the forums BEFORE you do them is because otherwise the staff would have a much harder time deciding who is telling the truth in case a scam does occur. In your example, this guy supposedly scammed people impersonating you or other trusted Sellers. The staff can easily check if he was indeed scammed by checking your threads and seeing that you haven't logged any transactions, while the scammed shows that somebody who looked like he was you scammed him. If you were not required to document your sales, how would the staff decide whose screenshot of a discord chat is altered or real or who's telling the truth? You can alter screenshots, you can fake chatlogs, but you cannot alter forum posts after they are made, the original is always retained.

Yeah because documenting sales really helped those people get their 200 dollars back.
It does jack shit. It's very easy to disprove fake screenshots as well.

Originally Posted by Chirs View Post
But okay, you're that convinced that this system is flawed, what alternative do you offer? As it stands according to sir, the current system has reduced the amount of scams, but if you have some other magic system that works better why don't you enlighten us?

The system itself actually isn't a horrible idea on paper, but the way the staff over-moderate it, take forever to reopen a sellers thread, or refuse to acknowledge that something clearly isn't right is the problem.
Last edited by Wounder; Mar 12, 2019 at 04:21 AM.
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