Toribash
Originally Posted by Hyde View Post
You mean a disruption that *isn't* ISIS liquidating their captured oil reserves?

In the petroworld, terrorist attacks on oil are considered the costs of doing business. It's a negligible disruption, comparatively.

Originally Posted by Hyde View Post
The "doming" theory isn't physically feasible, and it was a joke. Containing them must be done through controlling immigration and "aid"/sanctions.

Yeah I know, I just used it as a byword for containment. Containment would fuck up Middle Eastern relations.

Originally Posted by Hyde View Post
We do not rely on the (middle) east for resources as much as you'd think, and blocking immigration is not akin to severe trade restrictions a la Cuba.

Continuing on from my last sentence, how do you think countries that are being blocked will respond? The most common manifestation of power politics is economic sanctions.

US has ramped up domestic production in the past decade, which is great, but OPEC still has considerable influence on every energy market.
Originally Posted by xlr84life View Post
Okayyyyyyyyyyyy, just another internet troll, I shall not waste time of you, should've seen it.

Anyways, apparenlty the Paris terrorist had a history of terrorism, France/other countries should check backgrounds before letting anyone in, that may solve it instead of doming the whole of the middle east, will it? Probably not that easy I think.

"WE ONLY WAGE WAR AND TAKE YOUR LANDS IN SELF DEFENSE!!!"
and i'm the troll

Do you really equate peace with killing nonbelievers unless they concede and believe?

What else should I expect from a muslim? Literally in the scripture. :^)
Hoss.
Originally Posted by Ele View Post
In the petroworld, terrorist attacks on oil are considered the costs of doing business. It's a negligible disruption, comparatively.


Yeah I know, I just used it as a byword for containment. Containment would fuck up Middle Eastern relations.


Continuing on from my last sentence, how do you think countries that are being blocked will respond? The most common manifestation of power politics is economic sanctions.

US has ramped up domestic production in the past decade, which is great, but OPEC still has considerable influence on every energy market.

Who would economic sanctions hurt more? Them or the rest of the world? The only reason Iran was able to survive sanctions in the 70s is because the leaders were okay with sacrificing their people's quality of life.
Hoss.
Originally Posted by Hyde View Post
"WE ONLY WAGE WAR AND TAKE YOUR LANDS IN SELF DEFENSE!!!"
and i'm the troll

Do you really equate peace with killing nonbelievers unless they concede and believe?

What else should I expect from a muslim? Literally in the scripture. :^)

It wasn't a war, it was peaceful march into the city, no one was hurt. They only came to take back their land which they were persecuted.

They were allowed to leave, and no harm was done on them.

No blood was spilt.

I don't know how ignorant you can get

You just try to twist my words cause you got nothing left. Please, it's not professional.
Parkour like you've never seen before:
http://forum.toribash.com/showthread.php?t=423045
Originally Posted by xlr84life View Post
It wasn't a war, it was peaceful march into the city, no one was hurt. They only came to take back their land which they were persecuted.

They were allowed to leave, and no harm was done on them.

No blood was spilt.

I don't know how ignorant you can get

You just try to twist my words cause you got nothing left. Please, it's not professional.

I am not twisting your words, you do not understand what the words you are using mean.

They must either accept Islam or leave, if they havent done either of them, then they were given permission to kill

Let's break this sentence down so you can understand what it means, shall we?

They must either accept Islam or leave

Phrased as a binary proposition, in actuality it is not. The options afforded to them were to accept Islam, leave, or die.

You worded the latter part as:
if they havent done either of them, then they were given permission to kill

You are saying that you are free to kill them if they do not accept your religion or leave the territory behind. Are you too thick to see the precedent this sets?

No blood was spilt.

Because clearly their leader valued his people's lives far more than your cuntish leaders value yours.

Tone down the brainwashed hogspeak please.
Hoss.
Originally Posted by Hyde View Post
Who would economic sanctions hurt more? Them or the rest of the world? The only reason Iran was able to survive sanctions in the 70s is because the leaders were okay with sacrificing their people's quality of life.

I don't think it's any different now. We screwed the Iranians around so much in the past 50 years and it's wasn't until recently that we've only started to make baby steps towards creating good relations with them. But if you did such a thing as to not allow any Iranians into our countries, I'm pretty sure they'd say 'hell naw' and they'd go and do their own thing.

You've also got to realise that there's simply less respect for life in the Middle East. It's a hard fucking place to live. It creates hard people, and hard people are more hardcore. There's been so many atrocities in the region in the past 100 years that it just makes you sit back and go "Wow, these people are constantly doing things that we just can't".
Hyde, from reading your discussion with xlr84life, I am given the impression that the people given the choice to leave, become Muslim or die were not just rigorously opposed to the Muslims but that territorial conflict was the main issue. The fact that, in a bloodthirsty and generally reletively uncivilised time, a nation gave a month long warning before invading during a time of high tension as well as ordering there to be no aggression towards the country it would invade during this time, imdicates that the nation was not violent or blood thirsty in any way.

I do not know the historical or political details of this event so I don't know if the invasion was justifiable or if the invaded state had shown aggression prior to the event, but I still don't think this is an example of religious hatred and violence. The fact that people could stay if they chose to covert to the areas religion and that (from the wording of the quote) there was no direct order to kill unbelievers or any group created to seek out unbelievers (such as a religious inquisition) shows a degree of tolerance in a time when religious hatred was commonplace.

I don't think religion is the problem, I think human nature is the problem. I do not mean that we are naturally bound to kill each other senselessly for fun or that deep down we all love the idea of violence and murder. I will explain this view in more detail in later posts if I need to.

One discussion which might be worth having is whether the Muslim community does enough to condemn and discourage such attacks or if they should do more to prevent extremism.
Good morning sweet princess
Moved posts that were off-topic in the cartoon thread into a new thread because it is a reasonable discussion topic itself.

Discussion topic is in the title, read posts to understand what the arguments are.
Yay, a new topic.

Anyways, I don't think there's anything wrong with Islam specifically, all three of the major Abrahamic religions have some fucked up stuff in them.

I guess the fault lies in the people who follow Islam.
Originally Posted by Ele View Post
You've also got to realise that there's simply less respect for life in the Middle East. It's a hard fucking place to live. It creates hard people, and hard people are more hardcore. There's been so many atrocities in the region in the past 100 years that it just makes you sit back and go "Wow, these people are constantly doing things that we just can't".

Pretty much this, but I'd also add that the stuff that went down there for the past 100 years made them focus less on progressive ideas, like women being considered people or not bashing peoples faces in when they look at you funny.
Their mindset is different, from our perspective it could be said that it's backwards even.
Precisely. They have just as hard of a time comprehending our way of life as we do them. For them, treating women and children as objects comes normally, though for us it's some abhorrent sin. We as a people have latched onto the false notion that everyone is equal. The Middle East as a whole recognizes that it's ridiculous to even consider that, but their way of going about showing it is a bit messy.
All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy. That’'s how far the world is from where I am. Just one bad day.