Please do not triple post on my thread. I see your points, but most of them contradict with mine. However, I will not argue you, I made this thread to see peoples views. Nothing will change my opinion, all the rap everyone's mentioned so far is not as talented as most other genres. Maybe it is my opinion? I just don't see how poetry on top of a simple beat is music. Other music has a message as well, even classical music, with no lyrics has a message.
> implying I have a signature
Well i don't know about your perception of music and how wide or shrink it is, and you have all the rights to think for yourself, and it's good that we all have such rights... But for me, rap is music.
And i made my point on my last posts... I'm not trying to change your vision in any way, it happens that to prove my point, i need to point some sources or maybe even combat a potential lack of knowledge from your side (I'm not saying that you have, its ok, we all have lack of knowledge about a lot of things.. but since i listen to rap for so long, and it seems to me that you're not really into it to contest and define it in a fair and decent way...).
One thing is for sure... We all know that rap is officially considered as music to the music industry, that's why you can buy it in music stores, or listen to it in music channels... but yet, its more than just music, and its a mixture of a lot of different genres.
As you might know, rap has its roots and is deeply inspired in other genres of black music such as jazz, funk, blues, soul and even reggae, but it often samples music from different musical genres like folk or even classical music.
The rapper do not sing (usually... but some rappers sing too and some rap subgenres are much more inclined for that than others), he raps to the beat. The DJ or producer makes the beat, which is the musical component/accompaniment of the rhythmical spoken delivery of rhymes and wordplay... All together is what makes rap to be considered a musical genre.
But when we reach this point we understand how wide and dynamic the music concept is, and i guess all of us in the world are too impotent and ignorant to define it and limit it... Music is creativity and soul over sounds. Debating on what's music or not is like debating the existence of god or which is the real religion - it takes us nowhere...
And i made my point on my last posts... I'm not trying to change your vision in any way, it happens that to prove my point, i need to point some sources or maybe even combat a potential lack of knowledge from your side (I'm not saying that you have, its ok, we all have lack of knowledge about a lot of things.. but since i listen to rap for so long, and it seems to me that you're not really into it to contest and define it in a fair and decent way...).
One thing is for sure... We all know that rap is officially considered as music to the music industry, that's why you can buy it in music stores, or listen to it in music channels... but yet, its more than just music, and its a mixture of a lot of different genres.
As you might know, rap has its roots and is deeply inspired in other genres of black music such as jazz, funk, blues, soul and even reggae, but it often samples music from different musical genres like folk or even classical music.
The rapper do not sing (usually... but some rappers sing too and some rap subgenres are much more inclined for that than others), he raps to the beat. The DJ or producer makes the beat, which is the musical component/accompaniment of the rhythmical spoken delivery of rhymes and wordplay... All together is what makes rap to be considered a musical genre.
But when we reach this point we understand how wide and dynamic the music concept is, and i guess all of us in the world are too impotent and ignorant to define it and limit it... Music is creativity and soul over sounds. Debating on what's music or not is like debating the existence of god or which is the real religion - it takes us nowhere...
Last edited by BrainSplatter; Oct 21, 2007 at 07:30 PM.
We have debated the existence of god on these forums. You pretty much just said what I said except made it sound more challenging. I've heard the rap you're talking about, and I've heard you argument more times than any man needs to. The DJ makes a beat on the computer and the rapper talks poetry over it. What about rap with real instruments in it? There is very little, and it's not complex. I would much rather read poetry than listen to a computer.
> implying I have a signature
Originally Posted by Spencer135
We have debated the existence of god on these forums. You pretty much just said what I said except made it sound more challenging. I've heard the rap you're talking about, and I've heard you argument more times than any man needs to. The DJ makes a beat on the computer and the rapper talks poetry over it. What about rap with real instruments in it? There is very little, and it's not complex. I would much rather read poetry than listen to a computer.
Seems like you didn't read my arguments at all... I gave examples of rap groups making rap over real instruments...
Let me insert the links again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cYP0v2BLu0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uoozbuDogA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P8w6A5lti4
Aren't they complex enough?
And read my words: Complex and technical is not necessarily a synonym of quality.
If you think that complex and technical is a synonym of quality then you would love the complexity of the metaphors, wordplay, rhyme schemes, multisyllabic rhymes, and analogies and multiple-meaning subjects in the lyrics of some rappers, if you were able to fully understand them... Things you don't even imagine. ;)
Also... You can't say that turntables are computers.
Dealing with turntablism is about skills... And sampling is itself a way of importing real instrument sounds from another music and place it on your beat in the desired way.
Such skills gives you incredible creative and dynamic control over the sound, that's why you hear often that "god is a DJ".
Besides you can even make a beat using the Beatbox skills, isn't that even more "REAL" in your perspective since you'll stay really far from computers and other kind of technology other than your own mouth and lungs?
And yet, even mixing sounds on a SP1200, or in Reason, require skills and creativity.
But wait a minute, what kind of argument is that when in the other hand you probably like electric guitars and other instruments that are connected to computer systems or any tools to digitally treat their signals and sounds?
To me, music is music, no matter if you use real instruments - connected to sound processing technology or not - or a couple of turntables and some old vynils, or some instrument sounds emulated by a computer and mix them using YOUR skills and creativity, or like I said, even using your mouth in beatbox.
So now I ask you, is it really necessary to use real instruments to make music or "good music" or "real music" - whatever you want to call it?
I think its just preciosity from you, and you are unable to accept alternative forms of making something that is universal and as wide as it gets - music.
That seems to me that this is all a problem within you, not within rap.
Last edited by BrainSplatter; Oct 21, 2007 at 08:31 PM.
Originally Posted by Spencer135
We have debated the existence of god on these forums. You pretty much just said what I said except made it sound more challenging. I've heard the rap you're talking about, and I've heard you argument more times than any man needs to. The DJ makes a beat on the computer and the rapper talks poetry over it. What about rap with real instruments in it? There is very little, and it's not complex. I would much rather read poetry than listen to a computer.
I'm sorry, but you fail to like rap because of your ignorance of it. Not all dj's make beats on the computer, plenty of hip-hop acts perform with a live band. Not all hip-hop beats are simple, true they do not often physical skill, playing a guitar really fast for example. However, being skilled on an instrument does not always make you an inspiring musician. A producer makes the music from scratch. Picks the instruments/samples choose the right synthesizer noises, equalise, compress, arrange, dynamics, apply effects. Do you know how hard this is to do? Even making a "simple beat" is not as easy as it sounds. True anyone can pick up a basic program and fire out a hip-hop beat, but that is the same as saying anybody can play a few power chords and make a rock tune. In both cases making the music sound good is far more difficult. Nobody can simply "make a beat" you have to get the levels and timbre of each sound is balanced without breaking 0dB.
You say that the beats are simple, this is not the case. Some may sound simple but I'd like to hear you make something better.
Not even all the beats are simple sounding, I have heard tunes which involve complex time signatures. Some of them have great melody and key work behind them as well.
