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Old May 6, 2019   #1
Mafia
Paywast
 
10th Dan Black Belt
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 523



Toribash economy and TC inflammation
General point of idea is to raise the value of TC.

Why do I care if the owners money or not? A richer owner means a better Toribash for me to play. And it's the same for you.
Why should we make TC more valuable when items are dropping? Doesn't that mean TC is too valuable? No, the values of items are dropping because not enough players want them anymore or that they are still available on shop. It's not like they can't pay for it.
We know Toribash economy is broken because 1k TC is supposed to be worth $1 in order for people to purchase TC through the shop. But it's actually worth 20 times less at the moment. And no Toribash Next’s currency won’t solve it all because it will drop like TC did. So here are some ideas that could increase the worth of TC and prevent it from dropping again.

Making two types of items, some tradable, and some non-tradable.
-Non-Tradable items: Regular items that are currently in shop.
-Tradable items: The new type of items that I’ll call Rare Items.
What is a Rare Item? Items you can only buy for a limited amount of time from shop, afterwards only from the market, from other players.
So the shop would be made of two sections
1) Regular items for new players, always available to buy for everyone. (Can only sell back to shop)
2) Rare monthly items that are going to be replaced with new rare items every month.
The current problem is that the staff can’t make items that fast. Because 3D items are too hard to make and not many people are skilled in that area, and there aren’t enough colors to constantly make new joint colors and gradients. That’s why we need Static Body Textures
What is a static body texture? It is the same as a regular body texture, but it comes with the artwork and you cannot replace the artwork.

Replace (custom body textures), with (static body textures). Before you freak out, there can still be ways to get your artwork on your tori.
Step 1) Administrators warn players to back up the artwork that they have stored only on their items. Then remove all body and joint textures from circulation and replace with the amount of TC they are worth.
Step 2) afterwards there can be four ways new body textures are put into circulation
1. Texture set made by Art Squad (staff position)
2. Texture set made by community artist who won best texture of the month event.
3. Texture set made by community artists who pay a ridiculous price for their set to be unique items transferred to their account. (If approved by staff)
4. Texture set made by community artists who pay a reasonable price for their set to be sold in shop. (If approved by staff)
Notes: Head textures can be the only custom textures that stay the way they are, to ease the community into the new system.


How does all this help? 1. New player's items won't be affected by the market. 2. Putting new items in the shop constantly, is going to be taking more TC out of circulation


Limited time Items: (items that go away after time)
-No QI limited time item: Somebody with less than 10k QI could buy a pure force that will last 1 month, and then deletes itself.
-Cheap, limited time items: Anyone can buy a 512x512 head texture for %50 of the price, but it lasts only 1 month.
-Cheaper, limited time items: Anyone can buy a 512x512 head texture, for %10 of the price, but it only lasts 2 days.


Reserve currency: We do have something similar called ST, but that's not good enough.
For example we can have ToriCredits and ToriGolds.
TC: Earned by playing, can use to buy from shop or from market (the way it currently is)
TG: Bought or got from boosters, can only use to buy from shop.
We should be able to buy TG with TC or USD. But we shouldn't be able to buy TC with USD or TG.


How does this help?
This way any bought TG must be converted into Items before being put into circulation
This way there will be a lot of items and not enough TC, therefore the market price will stay low and there will still be a reason to buy credits from shop (TG)

-Pay TC for QI
I know the biggest money makers are usually the more experienced players, and we all know how hard it gets to rank up when you're a 10th dan+. So you should sell Qi to them. But with current system, Qi will be either too cheap for high belt players, or too expensive for beginners. That's why the experience system needs to change a bit. It should work a bit more like Call of Duty's, count by levels and change rank (belt) every few levels.
For example:

Qi to levels to belt



How does this help?
Because that way there's enough improvement to keep the player interested, and you're also extending the time it takes to jump rank. And you want that because if you're selling QI for TC, there should be a lot more ranks. And the top players will spend all their TC that's just lying around, on QI.


Quick suggestion related to Qi: the game should make leveling up a lot more exciting. Show it on the screen and tell the player that they leveled up. Or better yet, make a bot say it on the server chat so everybody sees that they leveled up.
You can't fight change. You can't fight nature.

Last edited by Mafia; May 7, 2019 at 08:32 AM..
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Old May 6, 2019   #2
MariaVirgine
Member
 
4th Dan Black Belt
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 354



Let me see if I'm reading it correctly, you want to make texture customizations harder? I mean, the point of TB is you can do whatever you want. And not only that, you want to transform all textures into TC? How does that help with your "TC is too cheap" problem?

Then you want to buy ST (TG as you say) with TC, and that removes the whole reason of a new currency. Also, you can't buy TC with USD? forum wise or torishop wise? If forum, cripto is coming, if torishop, well, Nabi support and stuff, with the current USD to TC ratio that's outside of the problem.

Also, tc for qi isn't happening.


Please do explain to me your points, because I don't like where this is going.
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Old May 7, 2019   #3
Wounder
 
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Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,253
Clan: win



well i only like the first part. the game needs better economy mechanics, like on roblox they would put out limited edition items that would be 1,000 robux with 50 stock, after a few years they are worth hundreds / thousands of dollars


on toribash they do the opposite, they are releasing cool items for absolute garbage prices with 1000000 in stock then ruining old rare items like cat ears by throwing them up for 65,000 tc randomly
the game needs more rare items for people to want to farm for, for me at least, and by tb staff ruining any possible value of these items ruins part of the game for me. there's absolutely nothing of interest above 500,000TC, which is literally 25 dollars at best. the only thing people spend money on now is art which is created by players. imagine if nabi was somehow able to get some of that revenue
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Old May 7, 2019   #4
Tinerr
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Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,677
Clan: Latin



Ok so dividing my responses as you divided the suggestion by color, to prevent confusion:
Originally Posted by Mafia View Post
Making two types of items, some tradable, and some non-tradable.
-Non-Tradable items: Regular items that are currently in shop.
-Tradable items: The new type of items that I’ll call Rare Items.
What is a Rare Item? Items you can only buy for a limited amount of time from shop, afterwards only from the market, from other players.
So the shop would be made of two sections
1) Regular items for new players, always available to buy for everyone. (Can only sell back to shop)
2) Rare monthly items that are going to be replaced with new rare items every month.
The current problem is that the staff can’t make items that fast. Because 3D items are too hard to make and not many people are skilled in that area, and there aren’t enough colors to constantly make new joint colors and gradients. That’s why we need Static Body Textures
What is a static body texture? It is the same as a regular body texture, but it comes with the artwork and you cannot replace the artwork.

Replace (custom body textures), with (static body textures). Before you freak out, there can still be ways to get your artwork on your tori.
Step 1) Administrators warn players to back up the artwork that they have stored only on their items. Then remove all body and joint textures from circulation and replace with the amount of TC they are worth.
Step 2) afterwards there can be four ways new body textures are put into circulation
1. Texture set made by Art Squad (staff position)
2. Texture set made by community artist who won best texture of the month event.
3. Texture set made by community artists who pay a ridiculous price for their set to be unique items transferred to their account. (If approved by staff)
4. Texture set made by community artists who pay a reasonable price for their set to be sold in shop. (If approved by staff)
Notes: Head textures can be the only custom textures that stay the way they are, to ease the community into the new system. And I think all sets should be 512, but prices should vary depending on art itself. It just makes Toribash look better.


How does all this help? 1. New player's items won't be affected by the market. 2. Putting new items in the shop constantly, is going to be taking more TC out of circulation

First of all, non-tradeable items were launched and tried several times, and that didn't go well since noone wanted to get stuck with items that they wouldn't be able to resell later.
Then, when you're talking about rare items, you mention "regular items for new players (...)", which aren't rare at all, they fall under the non-tradeable section.

Having in mind the idea that marketing is one of the best things this community has (since despite the complaints it's been working good for way more than a decade), killing the free market sounds really harmful for the community and lots of players would leave.

Later, "monthly" items as you said, are pretty difficult to be pulled off constantly; here's where your static body textures idea comes, which sounds... like a bad idea:

- Noone wants their textures removed, and then being sold to them for more money.
- Even if they were, who will decide which textures are going to be sold at the shop? Remember that there're a lot of texture sets, even incomplete texture sets that are being used and/or owned by lots of players. Are you ready to browse 20+ pages of texture sets before finding the one you "possibly like", instead using the one you love and which is unique?
- I will talk for myself in this sentence and say that I doubt that my set and their 3 recolors would be chosen, but hell I would love to keep them without paying any cent, because I already own them.
- There are rare and expensive sets in lower quality than 512x, would you ignore them too?
- Lots of marketeers have been investing for a while in textures, and even make money out of that. That would leave them out of the loop.
- Noone wants to have the same texture as others, the freedom to have a unique set is one of the most valuable things in tb. That suggestion will favor people with lots of tc only, which are a small portion of the playerbase, who would be able to pay for uniqueness (+ 12 good artists/year considering the texture of the month thing).


Originally Posted by Mafia View Post
Limited time Items: (items that go away after time)
-No QI limited time item: Somebody with less than 10k QI could buy a pure force that will last 1 month, and then deletes itself.
-Cheap, limited time items: Anyone can buy a 512x512 head texture for %50 of the price, but it lasts only 1 month.
-Cheaper, limited time items: Anyone can buy a 512x512 head texture, for %10 of the price, but it only lasts 2 days.

-This no QI limited time idea, I like it. I don't remember if this was a thing at some point but it could work for rare ocassions like xmas or etc. I defenitely remember discussing it.
-The other two items, I highly doubt people would buy that, even less if combined with your previous itemized art idea.


Originally Posted by Mafia View Post
Reserve currency: We do have something similar called ST, but that's not good enough.
For example we can have ToriCredits and ToriGolds.
TC: Earned by playing, can use to buy from shop or from market (the way it currently is)
TG: Bought or got from boosters, can only use to buy from shop.
We should be able to buy TG with TC or USD. But we shouldn't be able to buy TC with USD or TG.



How does this help?
This way any bought TG must be converted into Items before being put into circulation
This way there will be a lot of items and not enough TC, therefore the market price will stay low and there will still be a reason to buy credits from shop (TG)

How are you suposed to convert TG -> TC if you can't sell stuff you bought from the shop (conflicts with your previous suggestion). Imho it will add more problems (creating a whole new currency which isn't that easy to do, keep their prices up2date, watch out for bugs, etc) than the ones it will potentially solve (TC in circulation).


Originally Posted by Mafia View Post
-Pay TC for QI
I know the biggest money makers are usually the more experienced players, and we all know how hard it gets to rank up when you're a 10th dan+. So you should sell Qi to them. But with current system, Qi will be either too cheap for high belt players, or too expensive for beginners. That's why the experience system needs to change a bit. It should work a bit more like Call of Duty's, count by levels and change rank (belt) every few levels.
For example:

Qi to levels to belt



How does this help?
Because that way there's enough improvement to keep the player interested, and you're also extending the time it takes to jump rank. And you want that because if you're selling QI for TC, there should be a lot more ranks. And the top players will spend all their TC that's just lying around, on QI.


Quick suggestion related to Qi: the game should make leveling up a lot more exciting. Show it on the screen and tell the player that they leveled up. Or better yet, make a bot say it on the server chat so everybody sees that they leveled up.

If "the biggest money makers" (which I highly doubt they care about their belt) cared about their belt, they could always but Qi boosters.
Not gonna be that extense (despite I'd love to, because I don't want to make a very long post, hate those) about the ranks change you propose, but I don't like it; it isn't lineal and it'd take even longer to get belts. I get your idea of "hey let's place level in the middle of some belts", but there're better ways to reward players and keep them interested in ranking up other than more rank names to remember.
Also, if someone is upgrading their belt and wins, there's a message in the middle of the screen, as well as a echo message iirc.I might be wrong, long time since I don't see those but that's what I remember since like, forever.



Anyways, I liked the effort you placed on these suggestions, a pity they aren't good, at least for me.
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Old May 7, 2019   #5
Mafia
Paywast
 
10th Dan Black Belt
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 523



Originally Posted by Tinerr View Post
First of all, non-tradeable items were launched and tried several times, and that didn't go well since noone wanted to get stuck with items that they wouldn't be able to resell later.

Of course, but they would want force or relax colors regardless.

Originally Posted by Tinerr View Post
Then, when you're talking about rare items, you mention "regular items for new players (...)", which aren't rare at all, they fall under the non-tradeable section.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by Tinerr View Post
Having in mind the idea that marketing is one of the best things this community has (since despite the complaints it's been working good for way more than a decade), killing the free market sounds really harmful for the community and lots of players would leave.

I didn't say kill the free market. I said to keep 3d items + static body textures. which are a lot more items and types of items than atm.

Originally Posted by Tinerr View Post
Later, "monthly" items as you said, are pretty difficult to be pulled off constantly; here's where your static body textures idea comes, which sounds... like a bad idea:

- Noone wants their textures removed, and then being sold to them for more money.

sometimes people don't like what's best for the game. they like what's best for them. and that's not my concern in this thread.

Originally Posted by Tinerr View Post
- Even if they were, who will decide which textures are going to be sold at the shop?

At the start, the staff. later on, the market.

Originally Posted by Tinerr View Post
Remember that there're a lot of texture sets, even incomplete texture sets that are being used and/or owned by lots of players. Are you ready to browse 20+ pages of texture sets before finding the one you "possibly like", instead using the one you love and which is unique?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Tinerr View Post
- I will talk for myself in this sentence and say that I doubt that my set and their 3 recolors would be chosen, but hell I would love to keep them without paying any cent, because I already own them.

This is the problem. customized body textures currently act like way more than 1 item, one set and you could upload 100 sets on it. If you really want your set in a game then you should pay to get something so specific implemented into the game. unless it's really good art then you could get it for free.

Originally Posted by Tinerr View Post
- There are rare and expensive sets in lower quality than 512x, would you ignore them too?

I didn't think about this. No they shouldn't be ignored. any size texture is fine. ( will change in OP )

Originally Posted by Tinerr View Post
- Lots of marketeers have been investing for a while in textures, and even make money out of that. That would leave them out of the loop.

What if the same staff squad that uploaded/made the new textures, acted as a shop and bought the sets they like off of players to then resell them in-game. if they don't want the set THEN the player would need to pay for their set to be implemented.
this way artists could still make sets for profit.

Originally Posted by Tinerr View Post
- Noone wants to have the same texture as others, the freedom to have a unique set is one of the most valuable things in tb. That suggestion will favor people with lots of tc only, which are a small portion of the playerbase, who would be able to pay for uniqueness (+ 12 good artists/year considering the texture of the month thing).

you mixed up my points here. read OP.

Originally Posted by Tinerr View Post
-The other two items, I highly doubt people would buy that, even less if combined with your previous itemized art idea.

that's for regular items. why would anyone buy limited time rare items?

Originally Posted by Tinerr View Post
How are you suposed to convert TG -> TC if you can't sell stuff you bought from the shop (conflicts with your previous suggestion).

there's too much wrong with this. read OP

Originally Posted by Tinerr View Post
Imho it will add more problems (creating a whole new currency which isn't that easy to do, keep their prices up2date, watch out for bugs, etc) than the ones it will potentially solve (TC in circulation).

Just because a problem takes longer to write doesn't mean it's a bigger problem.
You can't fight change. You can't fight nature.

Last edited by Mafia; May 7, 2019 at 08:53 AM..
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Old May 8, 2019   #6
@T0n0mi
トノミ (/ 0w0)/
 
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,826
Clan: Damned



Mafia, i think the belt levels is a great idea. It suits the TB somehow.
In martial arts you actually have a stripes on a belt, and after colors can be changed further.
So, here can be some stages in belt upgrading. I think it will not harm anything.
-----
Off-top:
Lol, imagine to make Toribash mmorpg, you have a lot of useful ideas in my opinion
-----
And actually, i think buying QI is not a pretty good idea, because that means how much games you played and how much experience you currently have. Being a duelist/tryharder does not means what you are pro at everything. You can make ez decaps, but that does not grant what you can nail anything.
And if you want to get "something", it's much easier to make an item shop connected to your rank in mods. Kinda you playing abd and gaining an access to buy something linked to abd cuz you have good rank on it. (Yeah, you will not have a special item, you just will be allowed to BUY an item)
Actually a lot of guys with that nature using alts and other trash. So they can just invest money and make their alts not so obvious. Another possibility for scums i see, and other stufd.
Toribash already have no-qi market btw, but it's empty rn
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Last edited by T0n0mi; May 8, 2019 at 05:24 AM.. Reason: <24 hour edit/bump
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