23.04.15 (Page 3)

Ele

Apr 24, 2015

Ele

3rd Dan Black Belt

Join Date: Sep 2009

Posts: 2,891

Clan: Parrot

Apr 24, 2015

Hey! Play nice, snake - don't be a dick.

Hattersin

Apr 24, 2015

Hattersin

Chatterbox

Nth Belt Belt

Join Date: Jul 2011

Posts: 5,360

Clan: Obey

Apr 24, 2015

Originally Posted by snake

the day pc gaming died

gg, gabe

whats going on? valve monetize workshop

will edit on next break, in short - monetizing 3rd party content means that people are removing mods from sites like Nexus, and make it workshop exclusive, since they can put a price tag on it. another problem is that people can steal same 3rd party mods and upload it on workshop and profit of it, and considering how lazy workshop moderation ever was, it's going to be just as bad.

the danger is real,

so it was good while it lasted folks, get ready for cash grab micro mods with weapon skins etc, and say good bye to total conversion mods

to be fair, i'm not talking about tf2 / csgo, but games like skyrim, g-mod or arma, which depend largely on 3rd party content will suffer greatly.

what it also means that valve makes an environment where from now on, uploading mods anywhere else than workshop is counter productive as a) you can not profit from it; b) your work can be stolen, uploaded and profited from (it was happenning constantly on workshop before, but it was mostly about creativity rights, but when money is in the mix, things always go south.

@anybody who says that modders should be rewarded - this is correct, but the more appropriate way to reward modders would be "donation" option.

if anybody does believe valve is doing it in any good intention, to clarify:
valve gets 75% cut from purchaise of 3rd party content which is beyond insane.

also even if valve will change it due to outcry by steam customers (very unlikely they would give a fuck), but this just have created a precident of charging for 3rd party content.

the only real advantage of pc gaming is modding scene, which was in decline already, and now welcome to the era of early-access-3rd-party-micro-dlc.

just wow.

there is a useless petition going on at change.org, here:
https://www.change.org/p/valve-remov...steam-workshop

this one is pretty worthless as the person who wrote it was a retarded schoolboy with english as 3rd or 4th language and no clue on how to write in legal terms, but since it's getting 15k following, you may give it a go and cast a sign. ( just because )

ye Valve is Satan..
Talk about being melodramatic.

Regarding Valve taking money for mods: the mod-makers are still people of and from the community. If their audience totally resents them for making the mod cost money (which iirc they choose themselves, not valve) they will ofc not force people to pay in order to use the mod.
It's just as much a popularity contest as it is a money contest.
Got any examples of major mods being removed and put as pay only?
Is 75% of the money a lot to take from someones hard work? Yeah, seems like it, but on the other side it's not enforced, modders can still go by donations if that's more profitable.
It may also very well be that these 75% of the money that valve takes will go into moderating things properly. We don't know, but it'd make sense.
Pretty empty post, excluding the tantrum. I'm thinking this will just result in someone making a spotify for mods, at worst.

Regarding the limitations: these all seem like they wouldn't bother anyone excluding the one about adding friends, which I believe is also their main fix here, against scammers.
The update will improve things for the vast majority and take a tiny shit on the hearts of a few poor/unwilling people.

PM me with any and all questions

Liquidoom

Apr 24, 2015

Liquidoom

Bagged Milk Drinker

6th Dan Black Belt

Join Date: Sep 2009

Posts: 4,029

Clan: Inquisition

Apr 24, 2015

The only part which makes me rather mad is that we might have to pay for good 3rd party mods. I know they take a while to make. I know some people spend hundreds of hours on them. Sadly, what made a lot of steam games super fun was the ability to have hundreds of cool mods at your grasp for free. I wake up one morning and want to transform my kajjit into a 4 legged carebear which breathes fire? 1-2 mods and I bet I can get something close to that. Now it's gonna be transform your kajjit into a 4 legged carebear for only $0,10 USD! It's not much, but it changes the dynamic a lot. What happens if I don't like the mod, if they update the game and the mod doesn't work anymore or simply the mod plain sucks and I'm in the first few to try it?

The truth is that I completely hate this change. Also, 75% income goes to steam... what? So in order for a modder to make a 2,5$ off me, he has to sell the mod at 10$? I know steam is a company and wants to make profit. But this seems like a pretty big cut. Either this will make people not sell mods because its not profitable (unlikely), either it will make people up their prices because who cares, if your mod is good and is unique you are free to set whatever price you want, either it won't affect people at all (unlikely for the really good mods).

Help Squad | Companions | OFRO
Do you require assistance? PM ME!

Organs

Apr 24, 2015

Organs

NON-EXISTING!

Green Belt

Join Date: Apr 2014

Posts: 878

Apr 24, 2015

Originally Posted by snake

try to read my post again.
if you have problems with attention span - it's your problem, don't make it mine next time you post. thanks

your post was read
its like you dont even understand what you or i said

the modders get more money this way compared to donations, not many people donate money but a whole lot more buy dlc.

Last edited by Ele; Apr 24, 2015 at 01:56 PM. Reason: wiped away the nastiness

snake

Apr 24, 2015

snake

Metal Gear Yandere Belt

Join Date: Mar 2008

Posts: 6,152

Clan: fl0w

Apr 24, 2015

Originally Posted by Organs

your post was read
its like you dont even understand what you or i said

the modders get more money this way compared to donations, not many people donate money but a whole lot more buy dlc.

okay, ~~i will simplify it so you would understand it~~ I'm happy to explain it a different way so my point is more understandable:

in this environment, making big quality mods i.e. total conversion mods would be counterproductive, in terms of time spent and pricing. in short the policy we are faced is encouraging people to focus on fast to produce tiny half assed mods, such as weapons re-skins for cheap price tag, since it will be much more profitable in terms of time/effort/payback, so "modders" will be able to cash in quick and go for next little.

tl;dr get ready for shit overflow of tiny micro mods,

basic marketing, ~~derp.~~

~~is it understandable enough?~~

Ele Moderated Message:

A guide for future posting

snk Moderated Message:

don't be a dick, "basic marketing" is here to stay

Ele Moderated Message:

'derp' definitely is not

Zelda Moderated Message:

Can I join in? I like mod messages too.

Last edited by Zelda; Apr 24, 2015 at 03:10 PM.

tell me about aikido

~referencing Dark Souls in suicidal threads since 13/01/15

Organs

Apr 24, 2015

Organs

NON-EXISTING!

Green Belt

Join Date: Apr 2014

Posts: 878

Apr 24, 2015

Originally Posted by snake

okay, ~~i will simplify it so you would understand it~~ I'm happy to explain it a different way so my point is more understandable:

in this environment, making big quality mods i.e. total conversion mods would be counterproductive, in terms of time spent and pricing. in short the policy we are faced is encouraging people to focus on fast to produce tiny half assed mods, such as weapons re-skins for cheap price tag, since it will be much more profitable in terms of time/effort/payback, so "modders" will be able to cash in quick and go for next little.

tl;dr get ready for shit overflow of tiny micro mods,

basic marketing, ~~derp.~~

~~is it understandable enough?~~

Ele Moderated Message:

A guide for future posting

snk Moderated Message:

don't be a dick, "basic marketing" is here to stay

Ele Moderated Message:

'derp' definitely is not

that ultimately depends on what the consumers buy
the aim of a producer is to satisfy consumer's needs/wants

If the consumer doesn't want it, they won't buy it.
The producer won't make many sales unless it's giving people what they want.

so in the end it all comes down to whether how people want cheap reskins (etc.) or not

basic economics

snake

Apr 24, 2015

snake

Metal Gear Yandere Belt

Join Date: Mar 2008

Posts: 6,152

Clan: fl0w

Apr 24, 2015

people will buy ANYTHING, if they are aware of the product and have it infront of them on the shelf. this is LAW, literally.

also, vast majority of people are more likely to spend small amount of cash on low quality shit, as small transactions feel insignificant, and it's frequency depends only on ease of payment methods.

economics have nothing to do here. you can speak on economics for critical products or B2B relationships, and only on market as a whole.

entertainment industry, aswell as huge amount of products that are not critical are all about marketing, and marketing only.

the only thing this policy will do is to encourage modders to produce "cheap shit".

for example, due to greenlight and early access, we are getting fuckton of indie crap games, low quality, but cheap. and less and less any decent indie games, as it's way better practice in terms of time/effort/payback efficency to create junk and sell it for cheap, and then create another junk, than to create a quality product even with correct pricing, as it will sells worse, and in the end you will earn less than that 1 usd piece of crap everyone bought. digital industry, compared to traditional one have infinite suppy of product, since once product is created it can be multiplied to as much as needed to the infinity. so this shit is very different.

we will get the same picture with mods now, except it's impacting modding scene as whole, due to reasons i mentioned in earlier posts, such as why relising mods anywhere else than workshop is counter-productive for modders, re-read that part, as i cba to re-write it again

Last edited by snake; Apr 24, 2015 at 03:23 PM.

tell me about aikido

~referencing Dark Souls in suicidal threads since 13/01/15

sir

Apr 24, 2015

sir

Toribash Dev

Master Belt

Join Date: Jan 2009

Posts: 13,493

Clan: Gangsters

Apr 24, 2015

for example, due to greenlight and early access, we are getting fuckton of indie crap games, low quality, but cheap.

You're mixing stuff up. More low-quality games are produced because game creation is now a) kind of a trend b) way simpler than it was years ago in terms of both promotion and tools available.
The easier it is to do something, the more bad stuff gets done. Saying that if people are going to get paid for stuff they do will make their works worse is nonsense. The simplest example are texture sets in Toribash - there are always crappy ones but also there are outstanding works (that are rarely free because there are only a few people who are fine with making good art and giving it out without charging anyone). Of course some will start making single sword mods to profit from selling them separately but I'm absolutely sure that there will be people who'll continue making good mods - and probably even better ones as they'll be able to get paid for them. See all the Skywind-like projects that were doomed from the beginning - perhaps now when their creators won't work on pure enthusiasm they'll see the light.

deprav

Apr 24, 2015

deprav

Master Belt

Join Date: Dec 2010

Posts: 2,165

Clan: fl0w

Apr 24, 2015

Also, just like games, good mods are made out of passion and interest around a game, or an idea. Project driven by greed generally demonstrate poor quality and gives their devs a bad name, and getting a second chance in the videogame scene is not a simple thing : the public is harsh and unforgiving. Risking to lose all credibility for a few bucks is something most serious indie devs/modders wouldn't do.

And we sure might see an increase of poor quality mods with a price tag on 'em, but that doesn't mean good mods will decrease in number, they'll just be surrounded by a larger amount of shitty mods.

And about people who buy anything, well too bad for them, good for lord gaben ! I can personnally refrain myself from buying anything at arm's lenght, especially aesthetical mods.

Last edited by deprav; Apr 24, 2015 at 06:55 PM.

STRIKING Reborn

ImmortalPig

Apr 24, 2015

ImmortalPig

ub3r

Yellow Belt

Join Date: Jun 2013

Posts: 2,947

Apr 24, 2015

Originally Posted by deprav

Also, just like games, good mods are made out of passion and interest around a game, or an idea. Project driven by greed generally demonstrate poor quality and gives their devs a bad name, and getting a second chance in the videogame scene is not a simple thing : the public is harsh and unforgiving. Risking to lose all credibility for a few bucks is something most serious indie devs/modders wouldn't do.

And we sure might see an increase of poor quality mods with a price tag on 'em, but that doesn't mean good mods with will decrease in number, they'll just be surrounded by a larger amount of shitty mods.

And about people who buy anything, well too bad for them, good for lord gaben ! I can personnally refrain myself from buying anything at arm's lenght, especially aesthetical mods.

I agree with this. I can't see something like Tamriel Rebuilt or Morrowind Graphics Extender being built for money.

Apart from spammed shitty money grubbing mods, nothing will change.

EDIT: So it begins...

EDIT: It continues...
http://au.ign.com/articles/2015/04/2...er-mods-assets

Last edited by ImmortalPig; Apr 26, 2015 at 07:15 AM.

<Faint> the rules have been stated quite clearly 3 times now from high staff

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